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The Egyptian Army

 
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:10 pm    Post subject: The Egyptian Army Reply with quote

I came across some inscriptions from statues that had to do with the army. I thought it was interesting that there seemed to be quite a few from the period of Amenhotep III.

There are some references to "Head of the Bowmen". Must be the archers. And mention of the Medjay. (That could be the police, not the soldiers from Nubia)
Quote:
Pehsukher /P-sw-rw/, [b[]Bow-carrier of the Lord of the Two Lands[/b] (Theb. tb. 8Cool, holding round basin, lower part only, with text mentioning Amun-Re, granite, temp. Tuthmosis III to Amenophis II

Paser /P3-sr/, Head of bowmen, Head of retainers, etc. (Theb. tb. 367), with male figure and offering-basin at front and text on wide stela-shaped back pillar mentioning Hathor mistress of Dendera, diorite, temp. Amenophis II

Paka /Pk/, Head of the Medjay, lower part, dedicated by son Tjaytjay /T3jj-t3jj /, Greatest of the five in the temple of Thoth, First prophet of Horus lord of Hebnu, etc., with text mentioning altar of Ptah-Sokari-Osiris, black granite, temp. Amenophis III


There are also several standard bearers:


Quote:
Buro /Br,/ Standard-bearer of the company 'One Who has Appeared as Truth', etc., lower part, with text mentioning burial in the west of Memphis, black granite, temp. Amenophis III

Iunna /Jwnn/, Standard-bearer of the company /Jmn-tp 3 w3st spr nfrw [Amenhotep a Waset seper Neferu?]/, lower part, quartzite, temp. Amenophis III


Kamose /K3-ms/, Standard-bearer of the company 'Nebmaetre (Amenophis III) is the Shining Sun-disc', etc., son of May /Mjj/, King's messenger to abroad, and Takhat /T3- t /, with cartouche of Amenophis III, and text mentioning Min of Koptos and Isis, front of base lost, granite, temp. Amenophis III

Khaemweset / -m-w3st/, Head of works in the temple of Amun, Standard-bearer of the company of young troops, with text mentioning Amun-Re, schist, probably temp. Amenophis III

[Neb]kedet(?) [/Nb-/]/dt/(?)//, Standard-bearer of the companies 'Star of the Two Lands in Memphis', 'One Who has Appeared as Truth', etc., black stone, temp. Amenophis III

Mery /Mrjj/, Standard-bearer, and wife Suiro /Sr/, basalt, late Dyn. XVIII


There's also
Quote:
Amenhotep / Jmn-tp/, Head of recruits, etc. (i.e. son of Hepu /pw/), hands with upper part of stela only, with text mentioning Thoth in Hermopolis Magna and foremost of /H//esret/, granite, temp. Amenophis III


I wonder if he worked with Khaemwaset to train the new recruits in the army?

I wonder how many of these went to war, and if some of these companies served as the personal body guards of the King?

Some of the names of the companies seem to refer rather directly to Amenhotep III for instance.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this is Khaemweset earlier in his career before he marries Taemwadjsy and is Viceroy of Kush?
Fascinating to think he may have worked with and known Amenhotep son of Hapu.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't Khaemwaset have had to be very young?
Although it may be just possible if he is in his late teens during Amenhotep III's reign.
Taemwadjsy was superior of the harem already by the time Amenhotep III was in his twilight years I guess.

I always have a hard time figuring out these people's possible lifes. I think that may be related to the whole co-regency issue. If you allow for 8-12 years co-regency between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten, it all of a sudden becomes much easier to fit all these lives in their slots.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody seems to find consensus on the co-regency thing between Amunhotep III and Akhenaten. Consequently the dating of that time is hard to pin down. Some authors argue virulently for co-regency, and others say nonsense. I see possibilities in both.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lady Taemwadjsy's life argues in favor of a co-regency. There's a vase from her in the tomb of Yuya and Tuya. She was the next superior of the harem of Amun after Tuya. So she must have been in her late teens(maybe older) when Amenhotep III died.
If there were no co-regency, then she would have been ca 33 at the end of Akhenaten's reign. She would have been ca 36 at the end of Smenkhare's reign. Then 10-12 years under Tut. During Tut's reign she was married to Amenhotep (Huy) the Viceroy of Kush. She then remarried Khaemwaset, the brother of Ramses I, and had a son with him. Hard to believe she would have another child at ca 46 years of age.

If there was a lengthy co-regency then she would only have been ca 35 upon her marriage to Khaemweset. Still not young, but a bit more likely to bear children I think.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always favored the lengthy co-regency. We hear that Akhenaten reigned for 17 years, and many historians claim that he included his years of co-regency as part of this reign, so that brings into question just how long the Amarna period actually lasted. How long would it have taken to construct Akhetaten, and how long did the heretic king flourish there before he died and all of his work fell to ashes?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought that Akhenaten moved to Akhetaten in year 6.
Some think that the celebrations that took place in year 12 commemorate his rise to sole power.
Interestingly, there seems to be a co-regent showing up at roughly that time in Akhetaten.

It always seemed to me that when Akhenaten became sole king he quickly moved on to become "senior king" in a co-regency situation.

Made me wonder if the vacuum left by Amenhotep III may have been at least temporarily filled by Nefertiti and then later by Smenkhare.
Maybe the administration was sufficiently complex that there was plenty of room for not only 2 viziers but also for 2 co-rulers???
But that's just speculation on my part.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your last post jogged my memory. I think you're right. When Akhenaten settled in his new city, his father was still alive. He was old and obese and not well then. I've read one theory that states that Amunhotep III was no longer effectively controlling interests in Egypt, and Akhenaten was away in his "hippie commune" of Akhetaten, so Tiye stepped up to the plate and more or less ruled Egypt for a time until Amunhotep died and Akhenaten became sole ruler. Sound plausible?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must have read the same book/article you did Very Happy
That outline does sound familiar.

Is the idea that Tiye stepped up to the plate come from the Amarna letters? There's one where a foreign ruler addresses her specifically I think.

The idea of Amenhotep III even visiting Amarna comes from scenes in the tomb of Huya, Tiye's steward. Interesting that her servant had a tomb built in Akhetaten by the way.
It shows both royal couples. The interpretation of those scenes varies widely though. Some see it as a visit of A III to Akhetaten, others as just a posthumous mention of the ruler in the tomb of a high official who would want to emphasise the fact that he knew the king.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke wrote:
Quote:
The idea of Amenhotep III even visiting Amarna comes from scenes in the tomb of Huya, Tiye's steward. Interesting that her servant had a tomb built in Akhetaten by the way.

Its also interesting that Huya's tomb is one (of only 2 or 3 tombs I think) that was actually used.
Tiye and Beketaten are shown in the royal banquet scene - Tiye wears the crown of Hathor with the horns and disk with the double plumes.

The image of Amenhotep and Tiye comes from the doorframe. Both royal families are inscribed. One the left is Akhenaten, Nefertiti and their 4 daughters. One the left is Amenhotep and Tiye facing each other and Beketaten in front of Tiye. Whether or not Amen III is alive at the time naturally is the debate.
I wonder at which stage of construction would this part of the tomb be decorated? Last perhaps?

There is also a scene of foreign tribute being presented and this scene is dated to Yr 12.

http://www.mcdonald.cam.ac.uk/Projects/Amarna/guidebook/Places%20of%20Interest/NT/northtombone.htm
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiye is referred to as "The King's Mother, The King's Chief Wife".
Beketaten is called "the King's bodily daughter, his beloved".

I'm not sure, but aren't royal titles usually referring to people who are alive? What I mean is that because Tiye is referred to as "The King's Chief Wife", this would lead some to believe that this indicates Amenhotep is alive. If he were dead, her only title would be "The King's Mother".

And then there are others I guess who would say that's wrong Laughing And that's where the disagreement comes from? (Among others?)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Tiye is still referred to as Great Royal Wife at Amarna?
That seems odd as I was also under the impression that that title was held only by the wife of the current king - unless there was a coregency, then did the wife of the junior king also take the title? I wonder if there is a earlier example of 2 chief wives in a co regency situation?

kmt_sesh wrote:
Quote:
Akhenaten was away in his "hippie commune"

Laughing I like that - Ak as an ancient hippie.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
So Tiye is still referred to as Great Royal Wife at Amarna?
That seems odd as I was also under the impression that that title was held only by the wife of the current king - unless there was a coregency, then did the wife of the junior king also take the title? I wonder if there is a earlier example of 2 chief wives in a co regency situation?

According to Murnane's book Tiye is referred to as Great Royal Wife at Amarna. I found that intriguing as well.

I'm not sure of other good examples of co-regencies. The ones that come to mind are some from the 12th dynasty.
The only other examples are mother/daughter pairs where both are great wives. Tiye/Sitamen, Nefertari/Meryetamun, Isetnofret/Bintanath. Not 100% sure about the last 2 pairs. But I think there are inscriptions showing both Nefertari and Meryetamun officiating in the role of Queen, and similarly scenes where bothe ISetnofret and Bintanath officiate together.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing you probably could clear up regarding this, anneke. Was Tiye referred to as the Great Royal Wife or Principal Wife while she reigned as queen? It is known in certain cases that if a woman was not so-named while her husband was king, her son (upon taking the throne) would bestow this name upon his mother as an honory title. But it does not seem ever to have happened when the mother held that title during her time as queen. This is what I have recently read, anyway.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have read, Tiye was definitely the Great Royal Wife during Amenhotep III's reign.
I get the impression that there are quite a few statues of her.
I think it is at Sedeinga that a temple was dedicated to her. (There was an article about that in KMT a couple years ago).
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