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Are they the same?????
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Queen Tyie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Are they the same????? Reply with quote

is it possible that the some of the Egyptian Gods are the same as the Bible God and his ways? I have been really confused about this.... Confused Confused Confused
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think one can say that they are the same.
But there are some aspects that God / Jesus has in common with some of the deities. I think that due to the fact that we are dealing with religious thought it shouldn't be too surprising so find some similarities.

The resurrection of Jesus has been compared to the resurrection of Osiris. (with some obvious big differences being noticable as well. Jesus wasn't chopped into pieces for one, but both died due to being betrayed and are seen as "presiding" over the afterlife.)

The monotheistic tendencies of the worhip of the Aten are sometimes described as maybe a fore-runner of the idea of one god. (Atenism wasn't truly monotheistic from what I have read).

The image of the madonna and the child has been compared to Isis and Horus.

I'm sure there are more.
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the_tutness_is_here
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing, I just got done watching a show on the Discovery Times Channel called "Mummy Hunters" with Bob Brier(?), and it was on the Three Wise Men who gave gifts to baby Jesus of Gold, Frankensence, and Myrrh. He stated that Frankensence and Myrrh are not only sold in Cairo today, but in Ancient times, they were the "Scent of the Gods" or "Fragrence for the Gods", some notion like that. Shocked And when King Herod wanted the new "King of the Jews" dead, it is said that the three kings led the Holy Family out of Bethlehem and to--where else?--Egypt. They hid there until Herod died. After that, strangely enough, the Three Kings were never mentioned again.

But, back to the topic at hand (I thought the information above would interest you as well. Wink ):


anneke wrote:
The monotheistic tendencies of the worhip of the Aten are sometimes described as maybe a fore-runner of the idea of one god. (Atenism wasn't truly monotheistic from what I have read).


True, and the old Gods that Akhenaten wanted rid of were worshipped in secret instead (And, Re was also a diety for Aten, but that was the only other God Akhenaten acknowledged.). Moses took this idea--from what I heard and seen on Discovery Channel on the special "Ramses: Wrath of God or Man"--from Akhenaten, and so the "Exodus" began.

But before that, no one was ready in Akhenaten's time to worship only the one God, Aten. It's no wonder why Akhenaten only ruled for 17 years. It is most likely, in my own view, that he was murdered for his "Radical" ideas, though passionate.

And I don't think Akhenaten was the first king to worship the Aten...was he? Confused
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Aten had been around for a while. I don't know exactly how long, but the god was not invented by Akhenaten. He was the one claiming the Aten was the only one (or maybe the most important one? ).

There are also some stela mentioning Aten back during the time of Akhenaten's father and grand-father. Akh just took it a bit further Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit further? That's an understatement, lol. Wink

I also read somewhere that the Aten was worshipped even before Akhenaten's grandfather, back in the Old or Middle kingdom. I just can't remember the Pharaoh that also revered him, but not as radically as Akhenaten did.

And you're right, Anneke, I know that Akhenaten didn't create Aten just out of nowhere, however he did make it the sole God during his reign. He claimed that there was only the one, Aten, that gave life to all, allies and enemies, animals and people. Which is why he never had an army to begin with, and that he wasn't a man of war, and many saw him as politically weak because of it. But he still was a peaceful pharaoh, despite all that.

Meh-heh, I'm really going in-depth with this...I apologize. Shocked Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_tutness_is_here wrote:
A bit further? That's an understatement, lol. Wink

I also read somewhere that the Aten was worshipped even before Akhenaten's grandfather, back in the Old or Middle kingdom. I just can't remember the Pharaoh that also revered him, but not as radically as Akhenaten did.

And you're right, Anneke, I know that Akhenaten didn't create Aten just out of nowhere, however he did make it the sole God during his reign. He claimed that there was only the one, Aten, that gave life to all, allies and enemies, animals and people. Which is why he never had an army to begin with, and that he wasn't a man of war, and many saw him as politically weak because of it. But he still was a peaceful pharaoh, despite all that.

Meh-heh, I'm really going in-depth with this...I apologize. Shocked Laughing


That is exactly the same point that I was trying to make in a different topic for the reason Akhenatten would not send help to his vassals that repeatedly begged for military support!! He had equal respect for all of the beings that Aten had created. Even if he was king, he still did not seem to feel it was his right or anyone else's for needless killing.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ImageOfAten wrote:
That is exactly the same point that I was trying to make in a different topic for the reason Akhenatten would not send help to his vassals that repeatedly begged for military support!! He had equal respect for all of the beings that Aten had created. Even if he was king, he still did not seem to feel it was his right or anyone else's for needless killing.


Lol, exactly! I'm glad we're on the same Pro-Akhenaten level, here. Wink Now, what is the topic that you were trying to make your point in? I'd like to back you up in there. ^__^ Cool Hehe.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There does not seem to be many Akhenaten supporters these days... it is good to see another one has stumbled into the forum! I cannot remember what the topic was where I made that point but it was not that long ago. The discussions have recently edited so things fit into the right category which is always a good thing but I cannot find it now. Oh well, I am sure the issue will be discussed again sometime in the future.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol Who knows? The subject seems to be revived in here, I just brought it up. Wink And I'm glad to see Pro-Akhenaten people on here, as well. ^__^ And I didn't actually "Stumble" on here...I tripped, got back up, and went my merry way onto here! Laughing Wink And I'm even more thrilled that there's an Amarna section in this forum. I'll be there a lot, no worries there! ^__^
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
The resurrection of Jesus has been compared to the resurrection of Osiris. (with some obvious big differences being noticable as well. Jesus wasn't chopped into pieces for one, but both died due to being betrayed and are seen as "presiding" over the afterlife.)


There are some major similarities between the Ancient Egyptian story of creation and that in Genesis as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_tutness_is_here wrote:
Lol Who knows? The subject seems to be revived in here, I just brought it up. Wink And I'm glad to see Pro-Akhenaten people on here, as well. ^__^ And I didn't actually "Stumble" on here...I tripped, got back up, and went my merry way onto here! Laughing Wink And I'm even more thrilled that there's an Amarna section in this forum. I'll be there a lot, no worries there! ^__^


I spend most of my time in the Amarna section but the other sections are great too.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course. Wink That's what makes the forum interesting. Shocked Hehe. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:27 am    Post subject: shed Amen Reply with quote

... Depending on your frame of reference, most of the Old Testament reads like a badly transliterated narative of various admonisions. Some reads like the outer temple scrolls and some like the book of Amen.

The original Copt bible ends at Saint Mark so we don't get the same gusto of resurrection though the burial scene is familar. these days everyone utilizes King james which is of course about as relevent to its source as anything else named after Jim.

Getting back to resurrection this is a bit different from regeneration and further dilineations can be made for restoration or regrowth.

The easterners of Mittani had a divine child myth largely identical with that of Egypt's. The divine child was called sHd or shed.
In many late kingdom admonission texts that are comparable with earliest Coptic texts ( that is those that predate the supernova) when one comes across the terms Amen and Shed one might want to readdress just what the chant was on about...

Every child of a widow or widower was likely to be Nefertem or Shed.
In that they possessed the ka the resurrected sahu of their recently deceased and the form of their inheritance was naturally closest to the source- divine - childlike
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tefnut = transpiration
hathor= regeneration
sekhmet= restoration
astet( Isis) = perpetuation

Ausir ( Osiris the Oxyrynchus) ie Ani the aged is like a huge agricultural clan of pastoralists.

Set ( Earthpig totem) disturbs the bank of the Nile flooding the Ausir to the highlands that belong to a matriarchal clan the Satet Tefnut.
Sand dwellers attack practicing ethnocide against the Ausir. The Tefnut are assimilated by the Khet and are now matrilineal Khet. Stay with me Tutness your namesake is involved surely. The Khet people pour into the reed sea marshes with the Seti murdering them at every step ( centuries pass) until Djehuti seers assimilate the Khet. Now the Djehuti are a strange lot and only come about by moon. Their common interest is the tribal heiress or female chief who is tolerated by the Seti to travel freely.
All the Seti want to impregnate her but we all know why this just won't a reality. Isis the high chief finds herself safe and sound with the seed of Ausir oxyrynchus that is pregnant and following the laws and cultural ethos of the Ausir in their homelands. Resurrection follows ( think Wovoka) and the Seti turn on their heels. They taste mutiny and rebellion and go about killing male children Again. But Isis takes a carefully woven basket made of pitch and papyrus , palm and ziziphus and sets her child on the water. Nefertem shed Horus the *** orphan is suckled by Hathor the consort of Seti. Of course in tribal speak we know that Hathor is Isis in cattle herder clothing. The divine child eventually rises up and overtakes the cruel overlord casting him back into the dshrt hell he begets.

Mary is Isis.
Isis is Moses's mother metaphorically.
Hathor becomes Joseph's suitor or perhaps lover in another mythological retelling.

ecological resurrection
mythological regeneration
spiritual restoration Wink and sorry if im only partially half lucid. That was a long day wine got involved then a two hour dinner with a woman who refuses to speak English even though no one else including the waiter knows what she is talking about.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tutness wrote:
Quote:
I also read somewhere that the Aten was worshipped even before Akhenaten's grandfather, back in the Old or Middle kingdom. I just can't remember the Pharaoh that also revered him, but not as radically as Akhenaten did.


The Aten had been around for a very long time, you're right about that. But until the New Kingdom it had been a minor and neglected manifestation of Re, whose many other manifestations tended to bury the Aten in significance.

The first pharaoh about whom I've read who may have started to embrace the Aten more fully was perhaps Tuthmosis I. It was Amunhotep III who raised the level of its importance by his own apparent personal worship of it, and we all know how his son Akhenaten then went to extremes.

In a basic sense the Aten is a good example of how a deity (or form thereof) can rise from insignificance and then fall again.

ImageOfAten wrote:

Quote:
There does not seem to be many Akhenaten supporters these days... it is good to see another one has stumbled into the forum!


I'm one of those who has argued with you about Akhenaten. I do not see him as the peaceful and placid sort, but make no mistake, to me he is one of the most fascinating kings of ancient times. It is the controversy he generates to this day that makes him so fascinating to so many of us. Wink

Queen Tiye wrote:
Quote:
is it possible that the some of the Egyptian Gods are the same as the Bible God and his ways? I have been really confused about this....


I'll echo others on this board by saying I doubt any particular deity of ancient Egypt went on to become the Judeo-Christian God. Biblical scholars write that Yahweh began as one god of many among the Canaanite panteon of deities. But as anneke and maahes and other posters have written above, there are many aspects of ancient Egyptian religion that found their way into Judeo-Christianity and thence Islam. Don't doubt for an instant that ancient Egypt profoundly influenced many (if not most) of the civilizations that encountered it; many Greeks believed their gods came from the Egyptians, for instance. Modonna with Child, resurrection, numerous biblical passages, and other traits may well originate in ancient Egypt.
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