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The Deranged King from Akhetaton

 
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: The Deranged King from Akhetaton Reply with quote

This one goes out to the Akhenaten-philes out there - you know who you are.
Quote:
The fact is, that out of a reign of seventeen years, Ikhnaton ruled only between two and two and a half years by himself. The most obvious conclusion is that Ikhnaton was incompetant to rule. This was recognized by Amenhotep III, and by Tiy and the court officials after the death of the old king, and it resulted in the earliest possible opportunity being taken to put another ruler on the throne with Ikhnaton [ie Smenkhare]. This theory is corroborated by the fact that it was during the sole rule of Ikhnaton that such an outbreak of fanatical religious frenzy occurred, wherein workmen were travelling arounf Egypt chiselling gods' names out if inscriptions. The pictures of Ikhnaton, if they correspond in any way to his actual condition, certainly point in the same direction, for such a badly deformed body might indicate the presence of some mental abnormality as well.

It is scarcely reasonable to assume that Amenhotep III elevated his son to the co-regency knowing he was completely incompetant to rule, hence if Ikhnaton was actually mentally deranged, he probably became so after his appointment as coregenct, his condition deteriorating to a point where he could no longer be allowed to rule. It is possible his father was aware of this, and let Akhetaton be built as a place where Ikhnaton might be kept out of trouble, and left him there hoping that his state of mind might improve. It might also be that the Egyptians suffered a mad king as long as they were able, but finally for the safety of their state they had to remove him.

-p 92

Not just deformed or diseased, but deranged as well!

Quote:
The other indication that Smenkhare did not outlive Ikhnaton was the manner of his burial. He was buried in an unfinished tomb, which in any case was not of royal quality, with funerary equipment largely not made for him. This suggests a hasty job, for the burial of a phaorah normally entailed certain ritual ceremonies omitted in this case, and the conclusion is that it was necessary for the Egyotians to get rid of Smenkhare's corpse in a great hurry. I myself suspect that Smenkhare's death was not in the course of nature but rather as a matter of politics, his disappearance at approximately the same time as Ikhnaton adding weight to the supposition. Perhaps the death of one of the co-regents was the signal for the death of the other, or a successful plot to assassinate both was accomplished.

-p 100

They so loved their son of the sun they smite him with their own hands.

Amen.
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imanobody
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figure inbreeding finally caught up to them. I also heard that Akhenaten may of been a homosexual, but I don't think it's ever been proven.
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who and what he has thought to have been has been a strange journey. Manetho has a female in the chronological spot where he should be. When they started finding the collosus of him with breasts, fleshy thighs and lots of junk in the trunk, they were starting to think Manetho was right. Then he was a hermaphrodite when they found the no-gender statue. Then he had Froelich's syndrome, then he had Marfan's syndrome. Then he was consorting with his own mother. Then he was gay when they found the kissing reliefs.

A few of those ideas were considering as the evidence was coming to light, but all have been tossed into the dustbin except the gay lobby which seems to hold onto the homosexual theory.

Oddly, once I was looking something up for on of our monthly Ankhkhprure discussion here and ran into a site with a '*** in history' photo album. But the halfwits used a picture of Akhenaten and Nefertiti.

The illusion of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..ever wonder what may have happened if the clergy or remainders of A III upon discovery that Akhenaten may have been blind?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VBadJuJu wrote:
... Then he was a hermaphrodite when they found the no-gender statue. Then he had Froelich's syndrome, then he had Marfan's syndrome. Then he was consorting with his own mother. Then he was gay when they found the kissing reliefs.

Dominic Monserrat wrote about the fact that Akhenaten seems to be "re-invented" every couple of years or so Smile

People are all over the spectrum and the interpretations often say more about the people doing the interpreting than anything else.
He goes from enlightened ruler bringing "one god", to the first pacifist, to pathetic ruler with all kinds of diseases, to deranged ruler who brings his country to the brink of destruction, to royal homosexual, to whatever people want to see.

It's interesting how Akhenaten much more than any other ruler seems to be this blank slate on which many want to project all kinds of issues.

The wholesale destruction of his memory does contribute to that. There are so many blanks in history that it's easy to fill these in in a wide variety of ways.

VBadJuJu wrote:
Oddly, once I was looking something up for on of our monthly Ankhkhprure discussion here ...

LOL I haven't come acrcoss anything new in the last month. Does that mean we skip a month or just rehash old arguments? Laughing

VBadJuJu wrote:
The illusion of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

So is a little bit of knowledge Very Happy
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
People are all over the spectrum and the interpretations often say more about the people doing the interpreting than anything else.
Thats is exactly the point Giles makes in his old book - Ikhnaten - Legend and History. Things like Atenism as a Church vs State struggle were put forth at a time when that was an issue in the lives of the Egyptologists.

I like reading old stuff (when there is no new stuff available) and evaluate the reasearcher/author's take on old evidence. Some seem to embrace notions without much critical scrutiny, not so with Aldred and Giles who in the end almost look prescient. For instance, in this book from 1970, he dispels the idea that the mummy tagged as Amenhotep III was in fact him (the ID was in part based on an inscription of "Nebmaatre" but coupled with the mummification method he surmises it must be Nebmaatre Meryamun, Ramesses VI which was borne out when the mummy's coffin inscription was restored to just that). OTOH, as late as 2002 Brier was still lecturing on the premise that it is A-III.

He also noodled out that "Dahamunzu" must be Ankhesenamun though in a different way than the currently accepted basis. In this case it was more of a lucky coincidence, but he was still correct on sound and plausible grounds (given the state of the evidence and beliefs of 35 yrs ago) long before it was 'solved'.

anneke wrote:
He goes from enlightened ruler bringing "one god", to the first pacifist, to pathetic ruler with all kinds of diseases, to deranged ruler...
He was also Moses and the first Marxist.

anneke wrote:
Quote:
Oddly, once I was looking something up for one of our monthly Ankhkhprure discussion here ...
LOL I haven't come acrcoss anything new in the last month. Does that mean we skip a month or just rehash old arguments? Laughing
In fact, I have come across 2 and a half tidbits. I posted one a few days ago but you did not engage, so I assumed we were taking this month off for shopping, painting and the holidays. Wink
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imanobody
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I wasn’t trying to say that he WAS gay, or that I THOUGHT he was gay (I don't see how you could be gay with a wife like Nefertiti Razz ). I was just saying that was a theory I heard and, not being the biggest expert on Egyptian history:oops: , didn't know if it was true or not. Like anneke said, so much of Egyptian history is missing that it's really easy for anyone to twist it to reflect their personal believes or the current trends. But, in a way, that’s what makes Egypt so intriguing; since so much is unknown, you can come up with some interesting theories.

Mainly, to me, A3 shows that you can't whip out a people's tradition and force something new down their throat, a lesson we still haven't learned even to this day Rolling Eyes
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

imanobody wrote:
Well, I wasn’t trying to say that he WAS gay, or that I THOUGHT he was gay (I don't see how you could be gay with a wife like Nefertiti Razz ). I was just saying that was a theory I heard

I know - I wasnt trying to dissuade you of the notion, just pointing out that lots and lots of theories have swirled arowund him over the years.

Breasted called him the 'first individual in history' which probably reflects the mood of the 19th century which were well steeped in romantic notions more than actual scholarly work. Freud went to some length about his "monotheism"; and from that later whackjobs have tried to make him into Moses.

When they started finding some of the statuary and plaques and such, that he was gay had to be given due consideration. That the notion has been discarded goes unnoticed by those willingly propogating the myth.

-------------

At one point they were excavating in Thebes in the ruins of an old temple. All of a sudden they started finding one after another of the another of the huge Armana style collosus. There were 29 in all each clearly toppled off the pedastal and buried where they fell. I sort of wonder at their bewilderment and conversation.
Worker: "What are these? AE Gargoyles? Demons?"
Henri: "A king, maybe - see the crook and flail"
Worker: "Whats wrong with him...er her...um it?"
Henri: "I have noooo idea"
Worder: "Did they just bury them here?"
Henri: "Well wouldnt you????"

Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overlooking the bold print words from that article, the terms that jumped out at me the most were: "Might," "Possible," "If", and last but not least "Assume". I am quite sure everyone knows what happens when we assume Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh heh heh.

That was close to the point the author was making. After examing the highly romanticized early notions (pacifist, first individual, religious crusader, etc etc etc), the author then examines what is actually known of the chronology and then the quoted passage.

He admits it is speculative and cant be proved. But his point is thet not only is it quite diametrically opposed to the Legend of Akhenaten BUT garners far, far more support from what we know of the time and is plausible than the romantic myths and legends.

I did not want to say who the author was without that disclaimer and I didnt want to post the disclaimer until you had registered your outrage Wink

The book is Ikhnaton, Legend and History
1971, Frederick Giles.

This is an old work, but in the absemce of new stuff I like to read it to get the author's views of old evidence and how it has changed. This work is essentially a precursor to 2 later works. The first half of the book being reworked and updated in The Armana Age: Egypt, 2001 and the last half being updated and expanded in The Armana Age: Western Asia, 1997

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I did not want to say who the author was without that disclaimer and I didnt want to post the disclaimer until you had registered your outrage


Why, do you personally enjoy that or something? By the way, I never read any of Giles' works at this point in time. Smile
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