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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy That shows a person can be too cynical?

I guess I have seen too many"picture proofs" that are fake, that I tend to not have too much faith in things like that. But in this case I was clearly wrong!
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps it's my cynical core that is rearing up, but from your discription it sounds as if he DOES have a key, and that he makes a great show for cruise ship passengers in opening the locked door to the temple for them. I wonder which cruise line, hotel or travel agency he works with...
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sonofthemummy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Schauspiel Reply with quote

Ond of my favorite quotes is from Prof. E. F. Wente of U. Chicago. In his article on evidence for Egyptian mysteries in the Dynastic Period, he cites another author's use of the word, "schauspiel" in reference to Egyptian ritual. He said that if we refer to Egyptian ritual by that term, we tend to impugn the sincerity and religious sensitivity of the ancient Egyptians. His wife is an Egyptian, and this may have made him think carefully along those lines for decades. It may just be my vicarious nature, but, it seems that some Egyptians have a deep emotional investment in the beauty and symbolism of their antique heritage. Some people are superficial, and may indulge in a "pompous strutting charade" as the term was coined on Star Trek. But, for some, I think it is a very tender expression of something very deep. All the decades I have studied the ancient mysteries, I have always had to have one native Egyptian friend after another to help me to interpret the encrypted "writing on the wall". Typically, they seem to have a sense of some things that remain quite opaque to people of most other cultures. Maybe the desert environment has an effect on the brain. But, I also think it has something to do with how hieroglyphic writing exercised the right cerebral hemisphere. Now, this may sound credulous, but I have given it 33 years of careful thought. And, the Egyptians had a lot going on. I think they still do.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It may just be my vicarious nature, but, it seems that some Egyptians have a deep emotional investment in the beauty and symbolism of their antique heritage.


I don't doubt that for a moment. Just today at the museum I was listening in on one of my fellow docents talk about a certain mummy with a family who was visiting...from Egypt. She went to lengths to explain all we know about this mummy.

The father said with utmost sincerity, "Thank you so much for taking such an enthusiastic interest in my country's heritage." Smile

Another fellow docent and good friend was born and raised in Egypt, and I think with the knowledge he possesses, he could go toe to toe with the best of us. He is an avid historian of ancient Egypt. At the same time he has reminded me that plenty of Egyptians know no more about their country's ancient history than do many average Westerners you might meet on the street. Egyptian schoolchildren evidently receive much of the same types of lessons on ancient Egypt as do many schoolchildren in the West.

In the end I think it's the individual Egyptian that matters. Some are passionate about their ancient heritage, others are indifferent. We have to remember that the pyramids and temples and other ruins in their "back yards" are something they've grown up with--an every-day scene. To some that inspires a love of learning, to others it merely causes an apathetic shrug of the shoulders.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, so it is a key after all! Now I don't feel so easily lead/gullible. And i'm not going to be too cynical either-I think that it is indeed a key that opens a door at Abu Simbel somewhere, but I don't think it's a tacky tourist trap or some kind of tourist 'show' either. I'll have to ask the people I know who went to Egypt (most of them-why don't they take me? Crying or Very sad ) if they saw the key at Abu Simbel.

My German is very rusty-what is "schauspiel"?

Quote:
In the end I think it's the individual Egyptian that matters. Some are passionate about their ancient heritage, others are indifferent. We have to remember that the pyramids and temples and other ruins in their "back yards" are something they've grown up with--an every-day scene. To some that inspires a love of learning, to others it merely causes an apathetic shrug of the shoulders.


Reminds me of someone I know in Scotland who's from Egypt. She said she got pretty used to (or was it pretty bored of?) seeing the pyramids every day when she was living in Cairo. They just became 'part of the background'. Maybe she wasn't interested in her country's history as much as some other Egyptians I know-the guys who run the papyrus stalls at certain London markets-who are very proud of their past.

btw sonofthemummy-love the av! Wink
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imanobody
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
In the end I think it's the individual Egyptian that matters. Some are passionate about their ancient heritage, others are indifferent. We have to remember that the pyramids and temples and other ruins in their "back yards" are something they've grown up with--an every-day scene. To some that inspires a love of learning, to others it merely causes an apathetic shrug of the shoulders.

I think this is true for everyone. I live in the Shenandoah Valley, which was the hot bed of the Civil War (BTW: we don't call it the Civil War here, but that's not the point) and most of the battles were fought right here. Actually, both the first and last battles were fought here. When I was a kid you could walk into the woods and still find bullets and cannon balls. If you were really lucky you might even find a belt buckle (I never did). Even though I, and many others, find it pretty interesting, most people that were raised here don't and totally ignore it. Even my interest are just a passing thing; how many battle fields can you see till it becomes boring? But we make a lot of money off of people that come here wanting to see all these spots which we find pretty normal.
If I flipped the coin, I did the same thing. I was always interested in LA and wanted to see it. When I finally got to go to LA it was nothing like I expected (I was totally lied to by CHiPs), so that turned out pretty bad. I'm now wondering if I should ever go to Egypt. Will all the images that I imagined be crushed right before my eyes.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I flipped the coin, I did the same thing. I was always interested in LA and wanted to see it. When I finally got to go to LA it was nothing like I expected (I was totally lied to by CHiPs), so that turned out pretty bad. I'm now wondering if I should ever go to Egypt. Will all the images that I imagined be crushed right before my eyes.


You know, that's my biggest fear. I am getting so hyped up about going to Egypt that I'm worried that when I do go there it will be the biggest heartbreak of my life Crying or Very sad especially after what others have told me about it.
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imanobody
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's my fear too. Before going to LA I had the image that it was this gorgeous place with all these mansions and beautiful landmarks (and women). I knew that there were slums, but I didn't know they were so close and Beverly Hills looks NOTHING like how they show it in the movies and TV. And no matter what anyone tells you - LA women look no better then women anywhere else. Yea, the rich people's women were hot, but there are FAR more poor poeple in LA.

I have a very romantic vision of Egypt. I know that the temples and monuments are old and worn out, but the only thing I know is what I've seen in pictures and shows. So when I go there and find that yes the temple is there, but it's load, crowded, smells bad, with hotels and slums surrounding it - it would totally ruin it for me. Somtimes ignorance is in a good thing Laughing
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what a lot of people I know have said about Egypt-not least my godmother, who calls Cairo 'hell on earth'. My dad hated the country as well and said it was 'dirty, overhyped and commercialised' but he really dislikes the ancient Egyptian civilisation anyway (which is why I've not told him about my obsession, thank goodness he doesn't live with me). They warn me that you REALLY need to be into Egypt to actually enjoy it. And I mean, really, really, REALLY into it. (Luckily, I am. Maybe I will like it?)
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sonofthemummy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject: Egypt Reply with quote

One contemporary author said, "Egypt has been a tourist trap since Herodotus." But, I am reminded of some neighbors who went to Athens, years ago. They went by themselves and didn't have a good time. Then, they talked to some friends of theirs who had traveled under the guidance of companions who knew all the cool places to hit and things to do. Those folks said that they had a great time.

I'm not sure what the common use of schauspiel has been in Germany but, lately in scholarly circles, it seems to indicate something that has more style than substance. That certainly does seem to apply to a few folks I have met who profess a faith in the old gods. But, I have met others who were sincere, advanced students of theurgy and thaumaturgy with a keen eye for authenticity.

Examining ancient Egyptian art, we similarly see authors, statesmen, scribes and architects whose talents were far beyond what one can normally find. And, I do assume from the evidence on all fronts that Egypt did from time to time probably possess experts in the art of dream interpretation, which was often a part of their mystical and religious life. But, we can't generalize from such things if we have dreams of our own. We have to wait until more of the symbolism comes to light.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imanobody wrote:
Quote:
I live in the Shenandoah Valley, which was the hot bed of the Civil War (BTW: we don't call it the Civil War here, but that's not the point)


What, you live in the South? Is the Civil War still referred to as the War of Aggression in those parts?

Do isisinacrisis, Daughter_Of_SETI, Kevin, and the other Brits at ED still think of us Americans as "those upstart Colonists"? Very Happy

Quote:
Even though I, and many others, find it pretty interesting, most people that were raised here don't and totally ignore it.


You know, you're right. The American Revolution and Civil War were vital points of history to the United States, and yet I have minimal interest in American history. Another love of mine is the study of Native Americans (particularly the Western Sioux, or Lakota), but it seems for the most part I lose interest once the Colonial period begins.

isisinacrisis wrote:
Quote:
I am getting so hyped up about going to Egypt that I'm worried that when I do go there it will be the biggest heartbreak of my life especially after what others have told me about it.


I don't think I could be disappointed. I've yet to travel to Egypt, but I've talked at length with countless people who have, and almost all of them relate very positive experiences. Almost all of them would return tomorrow, if they could. There are such nuisances as traveler's diarrhea, which is something for which one must prepare when traveling to any underdeveloped country, and of course the legions of beggars, but the experience of visiting Egypt would far outweigh the bad, I should hope. I'd prefer to spend as little time in the squalor and overcrowding of places like Cairo and Alexandria, of course.

sonofthemummy wrote:
Quote:
And, I do assume from the evidence on all fronts that Egypt did from time to time probably possess experts in the art of dream interpretation, which was often a part of their mystical and religious life.


That's definitely true. Dream interpretation in ancient Egypt is certainly not one of my strongpoints and is not something that personally interests me much, but it was an important part of shamanistic practices and certain temple and healing rituals.
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imanobody
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
What, you live in the South?

My main road is titled Lee/Jackson Highway and I live 20 minutes from Robert E. Lee's house. Yea, I guess you could say I'm from the South. Laughing
kmt_sesh wrote:
Is the Civil War still referred to as the War of Aggression in those parts?

Confused I've never heard anyone around here call it that. I guess it must be something that was invented up north, or something. It was, technically, a revolution or independence war. The war between the North and South was no different then the war between America and Britain. The only difference was that the South lost, so they didn't get to pick the name of the war (the Brits probably would've named the American Revolution as an "uprising", or "rebellion"). A Civil War is when two internal factions are fighting for the same piece of land. That wasn't the case; a faction was trying to break apart from another faction.

Anyway, I don't want to go OT here (I would like to point out that I can't be blamed for that this time - this tread was OT way before I got involved), my point was that I could understand why Egyptains aren't interested in their culture. BUT... I think they have less of an excuse. You have to use your imagine when you look at a battlefield, but the pyramids need no imagination. You ARE looking at how something was back then (though it's much more beatup).


kmt_sesh wrote:
I'd prefer to spend as little time in the squalor and overcrowding of places like Cairo and Alexandria, of course.

I'd prefer Thebes and VOTK, but I've heard it's pretty crowded around there too. Plus, I hate looking like a tourist. I didn't have a problem blending in LA, but I highly doubt that I'd blend in Egypt Laughing
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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My main road is titled Lee/Jackson Highway and I live 20 minutes from Robert E. Lee's house. Yea, I guess you could say I'm from the South.


Wow, yeah, that's a pretty good indication. Do you sit on your porch and sip a mint julep on summer evenings?

I lived in Arkansas for a couple of years not so long ago. Many Northerners are somewhat put off by how Southern women tend to call you "sweety" or "honey" but I rather liked it. So long as it was a woman saying it. I probably would've been uncomfortable had a burly, overalls-wearing backwoodsman called me "sweety" or "honey" (insert banjo music from Deliverence). Laughing

Quote:
I've never heard anyone around here call it that [War of Aggression]. I guess it must be something that was invented up north, or something.


I can't say that I've ever heard a Southerner call it that, myself. I've heard it on old movies. What, I shouldn't trust old movies? Razz

Quote:
The only difference was that the South lost, so they didn't get to pick the name of the war (the Brits probably would've named the American Revolution as an "uprising", or "rebellion").


Reminds me of what we call the Vietnam War. Only in Vietnam they call it the American War.

Quote:
I'd prefer Thebes and VOTK, but I've heard it's pretty crowded around there too.


Yes, the remote areas would be preferable, but from what I've been told, those places can be packed full with tourists, too. I'm not too interested in seeing places like Cairo or Alexandria in the first place. My friend and fellow docent who was born and raised in Egypt says Alexandria is particularly bad, but it's gotten better in recent years (urban renewal). He's also related how tourists find Luxor to be charming...until you venture away from the tourist areas and encounter the slums and overcrowding.

Quote:
Plus, I hate looking like a tourist. I didn't have a problem blending in LA, but I highly doubt that I'd blend in Egypt


So you're saying if I go to Egypt, I should stay away from Hawaiian shirts, Bermuda shorts, and sandals with black socks? But how's that different from how I usually dress?

Kidding, really. I don't like sandals. Very Happy
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dream would be to find relatively quiet but fascinating parts of Egypt like Sesen and a few others here (I think carla as well) have done. Places that have wonderful remains of tombs/temples and so on, but aren't overcrowded or well known. But I don't live in Egypt or study there so it'll probably be impossible for me to do such a thing Sad
Apparently the best time to explore the famous monuments like Luxor and other major temples without too many crowds is early morning but I really am not a morning person...but apparently it's worth it for the sunrises over the temples. But then again most of the organised package tours do early morning visits so yeah, there will be crowds in famous Egyptian temples 24-7, it seems. Maybe not in the really small hours of the morning but it'd be all dark to see the sights at that time anyway...unless there's a full moon?
But really and truly I don't care how crowded it is-I just want to get up close and actually be there, experiencing the sights of Egypt. I don't care what the naysayers tell me-I'm going there and I will enjoy it!
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