Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Hitler and Nefertiti

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Chrismackint
Account Suspended


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 809

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:56 am    Post subject: Hitler and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Does anyone know anything about Hitler's fascination with Nefertiti?

All i know is Hitler beleived Nefertiti was the mother of the master race and it was she who gave birth to the first blue eyed blond child...and also how the german mueseum was going to return the bust of Nefertiti to egypt but upon seeing it Hitler was so struck by the beauty of Nefertiti he decided to keep it in Germany.

The whole saga simply makes Nefertiti more fascinating don't you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gerard
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 106
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a fair chance Nefertiti was from Mitanni whose nobilty may have been from Aryan descent. This is why Hitler was motivated to keep the bust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrismackint
Account Suspended


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 809

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aryan descent-whats that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gerard
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 106
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About aryan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

On possible vedic influence at Amarna www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there is any evidence at all that would suggest that Nefertiti was from Mitanni. Quite the opposite actually, everything points to her being native egyptian.

Lady Tey was her wetnurse, and the glyphs used indicate that we are really talking about someone who would have been breast feeding the child. This seems to indicate that Nefertiti was born and grew up in egypt. There is also the Queen's sister Mutnodjemet. This shows two sisters at the egyptian court.

I have never seen any credible evidence that point to Nefertiti being Mitanni, from Crete, or any other place.
These theories have been suggested based on the appearance of the Berlin bust I think. Considering the fact that she is depicted with more black features in other scenes, I do not think any reconstruction of where she came from or what she looked like can be based on her appearance in different scenes. The poor woman would have had to have been a chameleon to fit all the known depictions of her.

The Mitanni were from the area of present day Iraq. They may have been related to the Hurrians. So technically they would (by the definition of the word) be Aryan.
Hitler would have thought that Aryan refers to the "blond/light skinned" people though. This is how the term seems to be used by white-supremacists. He would not have been interested in linking himself with "Proto-Indo-Iranians" as they would have been considered "impure" by him.
I think he would have taken the Berlin bust and ignoring all other depictions he would have probably thought her to be white.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gerard
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 106
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Lady Tey was her wetnurse, and the glyphs used indicate that we are really talking about someone who would have been breast feeding the child. This seems to indicate that Nefertiti was born and grew up in egypt. There is also the Queen's sister Mutnodjemet. This shows two sisters at the egyptian court.


As you say 'This seams'. There is no reason for a princess not to come with her wet nurse and this one could get married with a person like Aÿ. The word 'sister' means also cousin. Taduhepa had her aunt Guluhepa who was a spouse of Amenhotep III (Mutnodjemet could be their daughter). I have others arguments to believe that Nefertiti was Taduhepa, but this is not the subject here.
This hypothesis was first thought by Petrie, long before the bust was found. His argument came from the name "A beautifull woman has come".

Incidently, a month ago I would have agree with you. Then, I started to write an article about Kiya and change my mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ELISE
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it, Hitler held her up as an ideal of Aryan beauty - I don't think he literally believed that she was blonde haired and blue-eyed, or even gave birth to children with those features though.

It is true that Germany were considering the return of the piece and that Hitler ruled against it however. During the war it was secreted away with other antiquities and the issue was forgotton/dismissed for many years.

There is some (admittedly pretty weak) evidence that Nefertiti might have had some links with Crete - I believe the cult of the Mnervis (or however you spell it!) bull was highly respected at Amarna, which is fairly significant when you think of the huge emphasis placed on Aten over the other gods/icons of the time, suggesting someone from that court may have been present for a while in Amarna.

There is most definitely a disparity between many of the representations of Nefertiti shown in relief - many of which are very obviously African in style - versus most of the sculptures. There is no getting away from the fact that some of these are more European or Eurasian in appearance. Sometimes it's difficult to believe they all represent the same person!

However, it seems almost impossible to discuss this in a sensible manner sadly, as race issues are very sensitive and everyone seems to want to claim such an iconic figure as their own!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gerard
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 106
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ELISE wrote:
There is most definitely a disparity between many of the representations of Nefertiti shown in relief - many of which are very obviously African in style - versus most of the sculptures.
When Nefertiti looks african, IMO it's when Akhenaton was looking african. The king being the ideal person, everybody is represented like him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hereticgal
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a good chance that Nefertiti could have had eyes that weren't brown. I know her sculpture shows one brown eye and more than likely she did have dark eyes, but wouldn't it have been something if she had lighter colored eyes?
_________________
www.hereticpharaoh.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, it seems almost impossible to discuss this in a sensible manner sadly, as race issues are very sensitive and everyone seems to want to claim such an iconic figure as their own!


Boy, isn't that the truth! There is scientific and scholarly merit to discussing the ethnicity of any ancient people, but too many modern folks bend the issue to their own agendas and discard evidence.

We frown on bickering over race issues on Egyptian Dreams and do not permit it. Other boards have gone down the crapper because of this and are not worth the time of anyone who is serious about scholarly, historical discussion.

Of course Nefertiti was an African. Ancient Egypt was an African civilization--it's that simple. Where people get bent out of shape is the excessive fuss over how light or dark one's skin was.

In the end, what does it matter?

What matters is that Nefertiti was part of perhaps the greatest of ancient civilizations, a people who were masterful artists and architects, a people who possessed a complex and meangingful religion and culture.

That's what matters. Wink
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group