Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Kiya alive at end of reign of Akhenaten?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Kiya alive at end of reign of Akhenaten? Reply with quote

I was just reading through Aldred's book again and there were some passages about Kiya that caught my eye.

There seems to be some evidence that Kiya was alive as late as year 16 of Akhenaten. There are some scenes reconstructed by Hanke showing Akhenaten followed by Meritaten, Anhesenpaaten and Kiya worshipping the Aten.

This would argue against the depiction in the royal tomb depicting the death of Kiya wouldn't it? I thought that depiction shows Akhenaten and Nefertiti murning a person (not Meketaten) and the small child in the scene has been taken to mean the person died in childbirth.

The scene I mentioned above seems to argue that Kiya survived Nefertiti though.

I wonder if the woman mourned in the royal tomb is Tiye. The child shown may not be her baby at all, but some other small royal child. Or it could be a small child, but not a newborn. The child seems to be depicted with a sidelock, arguing for a slightly older child.
Would be interesting if it was a very young Tut mourning his mother Tiye? Very Happy But that's speculation...

I thought it was interesting to see that Kiya seems to have lived so far into the reign of Akhenaten. Her monuments were later usurped by Meritaten, but that must have taken place very late in the reign of Akhenaten or even during the reign of King Smenkhare.
This makes it rather unlikely that Kiya was the mother of Smenkhare and Tut doesn't it? Would Smenkhare really allow his wife to just erase the name of his mother from monuments? Royal mothers were usually held in higher esteem than that.

I had heard before about theories that Kiya herself may have made a play for power and that her monuments being usurped by Meritaten are a sign of her failure. I never quite knew where these theories came from.
Still not sure I believe them (well, I really don't believe it Smile ), but I can see why someone might propose such a theory.

I just thought it was interesting to read and I thought I would share Very Happy
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1186
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote Anneke,
There seems to be some evidence that Kiya was alive as late as year 16 of Akhenaten.


In my book the Royal Woman of Amarna by Dorothea Arnold,I also read that wine jar dockets, (tags showing which royal estate The Wine came from) show she survived at least up to Akhenaten's year 16.


Quote Anneke,
I wonder if the woman mourned in the royal tomb is Tiye.

According to Frederick J. Giles The Amarna Age

That Akhenaten and Nefertiti together would have been enthusiastic mourners of Kiya is unlikely in view of rather substantial efforts made to blot out her memory.

According to Giles, the woman mourned is Tiye.

The scene on wall 'B' of the pillared hall portrays Akhenaten and Nefertiti
grieving over an unnamed deceased female member of the Royal family. The dead woman is depicted wearing a sach which was worn only by Nefertiti, except for the figure of TIYE portrayed on the funerary shrine presented her by Akhenaten, discovered in Tomb 55 in the Valley of the Kings. The Aton titulary is in its later form. Perhaps some of the princesses were shown and certainly registers of mourning people were portrayed. It appears that this scene, which Martin describes as 'hasty and unfinished, was, like the funerary scenes in Meketaton's suite executed after the death of the person mourned. In addition the term nwt nswt 'mother of the king' can still be read on one of the room's supporting piers.
When the evidence of the recontructed sarcophagus is added to these other circumstances, one can feel reasonably certain that the relief here shows the lamentation for Akhenaten's mother.

Quote Anneke,
I had heard before about theories that Kiya herself may have made a play for power .............

I have read this also, it was Perepelkin who has even argued for a role as coruler; support for this theory has also come from Vandersleyen.According to Giles it is speculation.

Perepelkin was the one who demonstrated that Kiya was the original owner of the coffin in KV 55.
He noticed that the middle portions of the columns of text on the coffin resembled the texts in the Maruaton, many of the inscriptions of this building complex had been altered from the name of some unknown person to that of Meritaton.Using fragments of models for the original version of the Maruaton texts he was able to pierce together Kiya's titulary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have read this also, it was Perepelkin who has even argued for a role as coruler; support for this theory has also come from Vandersleyen.


It's the iconoclasm of for instance the Maruaten then that lead them to speculate that Kiya made a grab for power?
I can't quite see her getting a sufficient power base at court to pull off something like that.

I also read something in Aldred's book about a steward called Bengay whose funerary cone was found in Thebes. Aldred mentions:

"Her [Kiya's] identification as 'The Favourite from Naharin', is suggested from an inscription on a funerary cone of contemporary date belonging to a steward buried in Thebes called Bengay, a name with a distinctly foreign ring."

I can't really find much about this individual.

On digital egypt there's mention Of :
Bengy steward of Henutempet

But that would date to a much earlier time in the 18th dynasty.

There's not any mention of a Steward for Kiya in Akhetaten from what I have read. She must have had one I think.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1186
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote Anneke,
I also read something in Aldred's book about a steward called Bengay whose funerary cone was found in thebes.

Interesting Anneke Very Happy , never heard before of this steward.

At Amarna there are small inscriptions of the "Noble Lady" (Ta shepeset)
Petrie (1894).
Maybe these inscriptions refer to Kiya.

In my book The Royal woman of Amarna they mentioned that Tadukhipa is referred to in letters from Mittanni as the Mistress of Egypt, that is queen. She is mentioned in the cuneiform Amarna correspondence until the fourth year of Akhenaten's reign according to Dorothea Arnold.

So I think that it is unlikely that she is Kiya, unless there was a name change after Year four. (only speculation)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gerard
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 106
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ta shepset’s docket year [1]6 is questionable. (J.Harris CdE XLIV p.30 n.5)

Last sign of Kiya is year 11.

In EA21 (etc.) Tushratta mentions Akhenaten’s sons, therefore Semenkhkarê can be a son of Akhenaten and Kiya.

Palimpsest inscription over Kiya’s name may means she was no longer alive. I do not think the sculptor Djutmose would have keep masks of Kiya in case of a damnatio memoria.

Regarding Bengay’s funary cone, it may be earlier than Akhenaten. See J.van Dijk, 1997 The Noble Lady of Mitanni… in Honour of H. te Velde Egyptological Memoirs 1

Gilukhepa was alive when Tadukhepa arrived in Egypt.

Death of Kiya is may be represented in room Alpha wall F upper register (G.Martin, 1989 The Royal Tomb at El-Amarna II, EEF pp.37-40). The other person could be Baketaten, pls note that of the original name a ‘t’ has survived. These two deaths may have occurred before Maketaten’s death. If Baketaten is her daughter as proposed by M.Gabolde (BSEG 16 Baketaton fille de Kiya ? pp.27-40) it just make sense to represent them on the same wall, whatever their time and location.

D.Forbes (The Lady wearing large earring KMT Vol 17-3 p.35 n.Cool suggestion that Kiya could be from the Tiye’s family makes sense if you consider that after Kiya’s death, Tiye looked after Kiya’s daughter, Baketaten.

I believe Nefertiti was Tadukhepa and therefore having an Egyptian wife was making political sense for Akhenaten who need the support of his family.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group