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Menkaures pyramid
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
And why does it look like the valley temple is in water, like a sort of quay? I thought the Nile was much further away...

I think the Nile was much closer to the pyramids in ancient times (possibly due to the inundation), also they built canals, so it might be that. Idea Not certain, though...
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could have been the inundation, you're right. Means the quay is only functional during flood times but that's when they built the pyramids, I think?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerC wrote:
Quote:
the picture is a bit small, but is the best I've found. Clever people those Ancient Egyptians.


I think it's a great illustration. It gives us a good idea of what the Great Pyramid complex must have looked like in its heyday, with the surrounding necropoli of the nobles. Here's a model of the Giza Plateau that I found interesting.

It must have been quite a sight to see Khufu's greatest monument in completion. The Turah limestone must have been blinding, and the pyramidion would've reflected the sun's rays and been visible from miles off.

isisinacrisis wrote:
Quote:
And why does it look like the valley temple is in water, like a sort of quay? I thought the Nile was much further away...


The Nile never came right up to the Giza pyramids, but it's true that the river used to be closer. It continues to this day to move slowly eastward. As Daughter_Of_SETI postulated, a canal was built that ran along the edge of the Plateau. Check out this image from Google Earth (I still can't thank RogerC enough for bringing that resource to my attention Cool ):



There's actually nothing left of the valley temple of Khufu's complex because it lies buried under the suburbs of modern Cairo, which you can see to the right in this photo. The valley temple probably would've been somewhere in the vicinity of that "compass" point is in the upper right-hand corner of the photo. Beyond that was the canal and quay. I don't know how much of either archaeologists have been able to find, but they've located traces of the canal and quay when sewer excavations have taken place there.

The canal and quay were critical to the construction of the Great Pyramid--and the canal no doubt later to the Khafre and Menkaure pyramids, though new quays were probably built--for the barges bringing granite from Aswan and other materials. But even after construction was completed, the cult of Khufu would bring officials in boats to the quay for the various ceremonies that took place on the Plateau.
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Chrismackint
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read a chapter on the pyramids by Hawass and when they were doing the digging for a new sewerage system they found the continuation of the causeway with remains of his causeway with dark green basalt pavement and the cause way was 810 meters long!

[quote]The Great Pyramid of Cholula, the world's largest monument and largest Pre-Columbian pyramid by volume, is a huge complex located in Cholula, Puebla, Mexico[unquote] 450 m by 450 m and height of 66 m -why couldn't the egyptians have built bigger? My friend went and she wasn't impressed at all, she says they are much smaller in real life than on tv-i felt really dissapointed when she said that!

[quote]According to the Guinness Book of Records, it is in fact the largest pyramid as well as the largest monument ever constructed anywhere in the world, with a total volume estimated at 4.45 million m³, almost one third larger than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. (The Giza pyramid is higher, however.[/unquote]

Considering egypt only has 4% cultivatable land they made some amazing stuff- the south american cultures had massive areas of rich cultivatable land and just had to go into the jungle to pick fruit and have enourmous amounts of food but i wish the egyptians pyramids were bigger cause i like the whole power and myth surrounding the pharoahs. The aztecs were so vile and they build something so large it's kinda sad the egyptians didn't build the biggest!
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks Sesh, I had no idea about the canals in the Giza area.

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My friend went and she wasn't impressed at all, she says they are much smaller in real life than on tv-i felt really dissapointed when she said that!


You mean Egypt or Mexico?

I always thought the GP was the biggest of them all and that the Mexican pyramid you mentioned was the biggest in the Americas but that the Egyptians still hold the records for maybe the tallest pyramid of all, and possibly the oldest (not Khufu, but the step pyramid). But apparently the country with the most pyramids is apparently not Egypt, but Sudan!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Pyramid was the tallest monument on earth till the construction of the Eiffel Tower (begun in July 1887). I'm sure the Egyptians had great pride and faith in erecting Khufu's monument way back then, but the French were terrified of that tower while it was going up because they were certain it was going to fall over on them.

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But apparently the country with the most pyramids is apparently not Egypt, but Sudan!


Yep, the record must go to the Sudan. But their pyramids were miniature versions of the Egyptians' and thus easier and quicker to make.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The Great Pyramid was the tallest monument on earth till the construction of the Eiffel Tower (begun in July 1887).


Apparently that's a really common misconception...I've read that some cathedrals built in medieval times had towers taller than the GP. But even so, the GP was the tallest building in the world for thousands of years, which is quite a feat!
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Robson
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonsense Isis. The largest medieval cathedral (Seville) is 97.5 m high, Saint Peter Basilica (it isn't a cathedral) is 138 m high, while Khufu's pyramid is 146.59 m high.
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Chrismackint
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khufu tallest but aztec had larger volume but is only 66m high! South American pyramids are all around 60m high, give or take 10 meters....who cares about volume though only height impresses people and makes the imagination go into overdrive Smile

Quote:
Apparently that's a really common misconception...I've read that some cathedrals built in medieval times had towers taller than the GP. But even so, the GP was the tallest building in the world for thousands of years, which is quite a feat!


isisinacrisis you are right! Very Happy

kmt_sesh and Robson are the ones talking nonsense Rolling Eyes

type this in and see

http: //en. w i k i p e d i a .o r g /wiki/Tallest_free_standing_structure_on_land
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're talking about that chart called "World's tallest freestanding structure on land," Chrismackint, I see where you're coming from (I tried to provide a link to it for everyone else but it seems to be blocked somehow on my end). However, not everyone counts spires (or flags or antennae or the like) as part of the height. Don't get me wrong, I'm also one of those who would love to tour the beautiful cathedrals of Europe and Russia, but they don't strike me as quite as impressive a feat of engineering as the Great Pyramid--something almost 500 meters tall built in the Early Bronze Age!

When you're talking about solid architecture there's this quote: "Until the construction of the Chrysler Building in 1930 by William Van Allen, architect, the Eiffel Tower was the tallest building in the world." I grabbed it from the Eiffel Tower website. Now, both the Eiffel Tower and the Chrysler Building have tall spires, so it seems every other site I visited claims this or that to be the tallest. It's quite confusing. I admit I used Wikipedia a lot, which can be tricky because few of its articles are written by actual experts.

In any case, we're all getting off topic. This thread is supposed to be about Menkaure's pyramid, or at the very least its two taller neighbors and the construction thereof. The question about the tallest this or that is interesting, however, so please feel free, anyone, to start a new thread about it in the General Discussion forum.

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Chrismackint
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you kmt_sesh-you make a strong point. I know this is off topic and so i'll just say this one last thing.

Personally i see the Pyramids as a massive achievemnt-considering when they were made and with only bronze tools-and considering Egypts miniscule amount of cultivatable land and people resources compared to other countries, and for them to be unrivaled for thousands of years-even iorn age civilizations only built their giant monuments recently compared to the time scale when Egypts were built-what i mean is they were built only a few hundred years after unification! A massive achivement for such a young civilization so early in their history!!!Egypts population was always in the thousands never did it reach millions like the other big civilizations in history, and this there achivements are made more amazing!

For instance China culture is over two thousand years old but only built the great wall and forbidden city 600 years ago-now consider egypt during it's golden age-rome was a marsh, the acropolis was an empty rock and China was warring states while egypt was already over one thousand years old and the pyramids had been built about one thousand years earlier! If we put it in this perspective the achivement of the pyramids is even more impressive.

China is highly fertile because the soil has been blown from europe accross the continent and being deposited in China for millenia- thats why they can support so many millions of people-they can plant crops year after year in the same place and all they have to do is pull the rich earth up from the bottom layer and replace it with the used earth-they have layer apon layer of rich fertile soil and thus explains why they could build the great wall-their rainfall helped too.AE nile innundations were erratic and unpredictable and hippos would trample crops regularly, plus no rainfall and small amounts of land made farming harder and no where near as much food was produced compared to mayan/aztec and chinese.

Maya/aztecs could support millions with their forests and rich soil and high rainfall-they could always go into the forest and pick fruit if their crops failed which is something the AE couldn't do. Plus the south american pyramids were build recently compared to egypts.Their civilizations are a recent occurance too compared to AE.

If AE had the amount of cultivatable land the chinese/mayan/aztecs/ had avaliable and thus the large populations their achivements would easily eclipse anything we see today in the known world-but ironically without these factors such as large areas of farm land or huge population egypt has achived incredible building projects unrivaled anywhere in the world!

Also AE civilization survived 3000 years-no other civilization has achieved this and i look at our civilization and wonder....will we be around in another 1000 years? Thats just my 2 cents anyway....
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nicely written, Chrismackint. Wink

I have a feeling you would like our Asian exhibits at the Field Museum, not to mention the "Forbidden City" exhibition we had last year (an extremely successful exhibition at that!).

Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion...

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