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The "Ramses" series, by Christian Jacq

 
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Sarah
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:27 am    Post subject: The "Ramses" series, by Christian Jacq Reply with quote

Hey guys!

"Ramses" was one of the best series I ever read...I have all five of the books. I found Jacq's idea of how Ramses "fathered" so many children to be interesting. I think in some cases it would seem rather exaggerated on Ramses' part that he had fathered nearly 200 children. However, almost nothing is impossible!
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? You have all of the series?
I do too, but I have to say that they were a bit too "New Age" for me.
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved the seires of ramses...its pretty hisotrically acturate except for some parts but otherwise it's a good historical fiction read...there are also otehr books by Jacq including many triologies and series..theyre all a fun read..
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Isetnofret
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the series...and I didn't like them. No offense on Christian Jacq, of course. The historical information in them is fantastic, but the characters I found were dreadful. Nefertari, for one, is too perfect. She's a complete Mary-Sue, and I disliked the way Jacq made Ramses almost complete forget and shove aside Iset the Fair (Isetnofret) when Iset loved Ramses so much and provided him with two sons.

I'm sorry, I'm sounding a bit nasty, aren't I? I just want to say that while the historical information behind them is great (Battle of Kadesh, Moses, Temple of Abu Simbel, Hittite-Egyptian peace, etc.), I found the characters enfuriating. They're either so perfect that you don't like them or so evil that you dislike them anyway.

Or maybe that's just me because I am Pro-Isetnofret (see the pen name).

Anyways, that's my ranting for today. I'm all worn out now. But I will agree that they were historically good books.

~ Isetnofret ~
AKA Estora
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Robson
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian Jacq is actually a pretty good Egyptologist (vide his "serious" book Akhenaton et Nefertiti - la couple solaire, and the descriptive parts of his novels), but as a novelisthimself... hmmm, well maybe he has on mind middle-class housewives from the French countryside, when he portraits his perfect heroes Ramses and Nefertari and his total villains Shanaar and Dolora enclosed in a burgeoise family drama. For sure, he had to omit some shocking (in his narrow view) details like crowded harems inhabited included by daughters and grand-daughters. Some more modest traditional rulers in Africa and Oceania )I personally knew some) can gather about a dozen of wives and a half-hundred kids. Maybe are they less 'civilized' than the Ancient Egyptians, according to Dr. Jacq novelistic view?

Indeed the good new is that Ramses series and the other Christian Jacq's novels play a good service on inform common people about AE civilization. The bad new is that when he manages to filter some "shocking details" and put at large his phantasies (including Moses, Homer, Helen of Troy, etc.) readers tend to believe that is all also true.
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually enjoy Jacq's writing style, but the Ramses series in particular are far from historically correct. The personalities of royalty in ancienct Egypt aren't really known, so I can understand Jacq portraying them as 'perfect' because this is how pharaohs wished to be perceived by the ancient Egyptians. The series of Christian Jacq's that I've always enjoyed is the Stone of Light. It's about the village of Deir el-Medina (the village where the tomb-makers lived that built the tombs in the Valley of the Kings), it is much more historically accurate - although, still fiction - as the people of Deir el-Medina are well attested; much is known of the indvidual's personality, as well as their daily lives.

Robson wrote:
but as a novelisthimself... hmmm, well maybe he has on mind middle-class housewives from the French countryside, when he portraits his perfect heroes Ramses and Nefertari and his total villains Shanaar and Dolora enclosed in a burgeoise family drama.

pharaohlol Hey, I love the books, and I'm not housewife from the French countryside! Laughing
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Isetnofret
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, well, I still find Isetnofret the most interesting. I feel so sorry for her, though! There she is, completely in love with Ramses and with his first-born son, and he's gone off with Nefertari who is oh-so-beautiful and smart and perfect and and --

Confused

You get what I'm saying. Lemme just ask you this: what woman doesn't feel jealous of the lady who stole your one true love away from you? Surely Jacq knew what he was doing when he made Isetnofret all friendly to Nefertari.

I'm so MAD! If I were Isetnofret I would have fought my way back to where I deserved to be, and....and...

*Notices everyone staring at her oddly*

Embarassed

I'm done now. Just needed to get that off my chest.

~ Isetnofret ~
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do feel sorry for Isetnofret who did so much to please ramses..however...i think he still is very grateful to her and respects her if not truely loves her.
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Isetnofret
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respect gratefulness is all good and well, but she gave her heart to him, gave him two sons and eventual successor, and tried so hard to win his affections...I don't think it's fair.

~ Isetnofret ~
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nothing is fair in life...not even back in the ancient times!
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Isetnofret
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too true, too true...especially in my novel with Nefertari...hahaha, revenge Christian Jaqc!!
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u really seem to like ramses first wife dont u? heheh... Wink
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what you know, or think you know, of Isetnofret (the queen) must be taken with a grain of salt, Isetnofret. As Daughter of Seti says, we know practically nothing of the private lives or AE royalty. You seem to be basing your knowledge on Jacq's work, which is quite all right, but historically questionable. Idea
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Isetnofret
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not basing my knowledge on his books, just disliking the actual characters as in characters in books. I'm sure the ancient times was probably nothing like that...but I still don't like the books. It makes everything biased...but I'm being a bit of a hypocrite there, so...yeah...

~ Isetnofret ~
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah like what Osiris II says, Jacq's events are accurate to some extent but their personality and thoughts can be questioned because after all, there has been know proof of how Isetnofret felt or Ramses...except for the depictions of ramses's love to nefertari
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