Egyptian Dreams

[anneke]

I was looking at Piye's victory stela and there is a rather interesting passage where the surrender of Nimlot is concerned.
Apparently Nilot had been an ally of Piye, but when Tefnakht rose to power he defected to the camp of the Saite Prince.

When Piye traveled north to deal with the threat he besieged Nimlot's city and at some point Nimlot sent gifts and even a diadem. These peace overtures were apparently initially rebuffed.

There is mention of Nimlot's wife Nes-tent(-meh) going to Piye's wives and daughters and pleading through them for a peace treaty.

On the victory stela Nes-tent stands before her husband Nimlot when they appear before Piye.


Nes-tent has the titles king's wife and king's daughter. I find her involvement rather interesting. One question is: she's a king's daughter, but which king?
Could she be a daughter of either Piye or Kashta? Did she plead her case before the wofe of Piye because they were somehow related?
I don't know of cases where the wives of rulers were involved in diplomatic negotiations. And her position on the victory stela standing in front of her husband seems to indicate she may have had a higher position at court?

I'm not sure what conclusions we can draw from these facts, but she's interesting. She's the only queen of a vanquished opponent specifically mentioned by Piye.

Any thoughts?
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Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/

[Khuy-n-inpw]

As I understand it, she went to as many women associated with Piy as she could find, including the king’s sisters, one of whom (Amirdis I) was God’s Wife of Amun. Given the supreme importance of such female roles during this period, might it not be that this was simply the best leverage poor old Nimlot could get?

As to the genealogy of Nes-tent, who would know that?

[Mandi]

Sorry i thought this was too interesting not to respond to and i didn't think it would bother anyone if i did....

I have heard of one other woman who was apparently involved in important issues of state and stuff atleast.... Not saying it is quite the same... But i was noting that i forget who, but some king or other of a different kingdom, would write to Hatchepsut and ask her to intervene with her husband. According to my text book she was even known to tell this king of where ever.... i gotta look that up.... That she would talk to him about it and stuff.... This would be rather different than what you are describing still, it would be using a queen and a woman as intermediary so to speak.

I was also thinking similar to what was noted already about the god's wife foctor and the prominence at that time period. My tesxt books claim they were independently excessively wealthy and in possession of possibly more wealth and even land than the king(???) It also appears their names were placed in cartouches. Makes me wonder.... Though i have little to no evidence to back up the potentials described in this question, if things had changed in Egypt at this time that perhaps Pharoah's importance was more that of an employee or submissive to the god's wife? If such a roll change or diminishing had occurred.... It might provide atleast a partial explanation.... But you would know more about it than i would. I am just thinking out loud....
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Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

[anneke]

It's true that the God's Wives played a large role. I'm not sure how prominent the role of the royal women was during this time period. We don't really see the wives of Piye, Shabaka, Shebitqo and Taharqa play an obvious role during their reign.

I always thought that the role of women increased after this period, leading to several prominent queens.

I just found it interesting that Nes-tent pleaded with the royal women. And her titles do indicate she was the daughter of a ruler. But that could just as easily mean she was a daughter of say Osorkon III, Rudamun, Iuput or some other leader from that time.

I can't tell if Nes-tent is an egyptian name or could be a Nubian name.

And the fact that Nes-tent stands before her husband almost makes it look (to me) as though she is of higher standard than her husband. Nes-tent is depicted shaking her sistra, while Nimlot is leading a horse. The latter is not exactly dignified? But still for some reason Nimlot and Nes-tent are depicted upright. The other rulers are all prostrating themselves before Piye.

True, unless we have more inscriptional evidence we will never know for sure who Nes-tent was related to.
But having said that, what could the meaning be of Nes-tent's prominence and the fact that she and her husband are not depicted prostrating themselves?

Mandi:
Did you mean Queen Tiye instead of Hatshepsut? I have heard of Tiye being adressed in a letter by I believe Tushratta? You're right there have been cases where a royal lady (the king's mother in that case) was asked to speak on behalf of a ruler.

But this case was a little different. The king himself addressed Tiye.
Here we see the queen plead the case initially with the royal women.

It's too bad that the stela is apparently damaged at the place where the story of Nimlot's wife is told. I think there are a couple lines missing.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/

[Mandi]

Because for some reason i would nearly write in my own blood the hieroglyphs for Hatchepsut (Likely all backward gotta love dyslexia! And only if i actually knew them. )

But you have a far superior education to mine so before i say anything definitive i want to double check.... Though Queen Tiye was pretty cool too! I read some article not long ago my fiance had found of some statue of Tiye i think it was int he valley of the kings though it could have been the queens too i guess. I should look up that article and that information in my text book to make sure i have it right who i am talking about. Soooo many damn kings and even more damn queens.... As they married multiple times like the mormons of that compound they recently invaded it would seem..... Seems society's view on such things was different. Because what a tragedy this mormon compound thing has become.

I find it a little odd though as far as Egypt goes that it would be ruled by a man and the royalty would be found in the woman's blood. I am not sure what to make of this as it seems to me that it is somehow rather different than is normal.

After i get a couple things done here and hopefully before bed or otherwise tomorrow i will have a look and double check if i mean Hatchepsut!
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Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

[Mandi]

I suck! You are right Anneke! It was Tiye!
My apologies.... How did i get so mixed up? Thank you for giving me reason to look it up or i prolly would have gone on believing it was Hatchepsut forever.

That does change things.... It makes this Thread far more intrigueing and mysterious doesn't it....

Hmmm I mentioned an article. I am certain everyone must have seen it already but i am gonna dig it up anyway as i did mention it and it was pretty cool.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080331-egypt-statue.html
After reading this more closely it claims the statue is in Luxor.... Which is very confusing. To my understanding Tiye had a few titles but was never god's wife...I would assume she would not have been featured there.... Hmmm... Perplexing....
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Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

[Gerard.]

[Gerard.]

[Gerard.]

This page http://wysinger.homestead.com/piyevictorystela.html tell us :Piye with his back to the god Amun. I must say it is a bit surprising that in the temple of Amun, the king is represented that way. Just a tought, Nimlot leading a horse, where to represent his wife if not in front of him ?