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Rise of the Meroitic Period

 
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Mandi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Rise of the Meroitic Period Reply with quote

At around the same time the romans were invading Egypt, suddenly, major changes were happening in Nubia. The previous period known as, Napata Period, (For which we know pretty much alot of nothing) ended. My text book argues that there was a pwer shift and all this other stuff that seems assinine to me given what we know of Nubia's past (which isn't much) In that it suggests that the change in Nubia was an internal thing... One morning they woke up and said, "Today we are gonna build some super structures, (even though we have no background in such building projects.) We are gonna go get us some cool "Ba" statues and build mini pyramids on our graves, with an offering table in the right location to be offerings to Amun, rather than the dead. We will go make us some sexy Egyptian pottery, and create us 2 written forms of language (Hierogglyphs and a cursive form) at the *SAME TIME* based on the pre-existing forms found in Egypt. Whats more, for no apparent reason Rome will NOT invade us.... (This makes 0 sense.... As Rome doesn't take over regions leaving 1 unparticularly war like area alone that has plenty of resources to take advantage of, when there is no evidence that they had a military made up of more than a bunch of agriculturalist farmers.) Durting Napata, the structures were small and of mud brick... Then they just suddenly went huge! An area up around the second Cataract (Dongola Reach, Barkal and Kerma region) which had been abandoned during Napata, was suddenly reinhabited by ppl who had burials that don't match with the older traditions of Nubian burial and seem to be Egyptian... At the same time it is clear regional deities of an older nature from long ago in Nubia are re-asserted and the whole political structure changes. In Egypt whole towns and villages disapear partly due to Roman taxes and an ever more pressing amount of labor demanded.... Did they go to Nubia???? Are the changes found in Nubia a combination of the old Napata period and the fled Egyptians coming together in the abandoned Dongola Reach,?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused too ...

The Napatan era starts with Alara and Kashta about whom we have not much info. But the greatest Napatan leaders include Piye, Shabaqa, Shebitqo, and Taharqa. During this time the use of pyramids is the standard burial method. With pyramids rising in Nuri, el Kurru, etc.

The Napatans built at Gebel Barkal, Nuri etc.

I always thought that the change from the Napatan period to the Meroitic period was basically a change of capital? And this change over had next to nothing to do with the Romans.

The Assyrians did defeat the Napatans, even taking wives and a son of Taharqa prisoner. I don't get the impression that the Romans ever bothered with the Nubians. Probably too far away and it may have been easier to acquire items from Nubia through trade then through conquest.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:42 am    Post subject: Very Interesting.... That is NOT what my text book says... Reply with quote

Sorry if i have made a mistake... I am just beginning studies.... But according to my text book we don't know anything about anything to do with the Napata Period, cept that it happened and there was som sort of hierarchy. As for Alara and Kashta, My book provides very different information. ( I am not sure my source material is unbiast as alot of information i had to hunt down on my own.) I am a bit worried about how much of an agenda is going on actually.... My text, indicates Alara was the first of the Meroic leaders and that somehow he established a new center of everything. Yes My book also gives Nuri and Barkal to the Napatan era, except NOT their large structures. It claims that area was abandoned at a certain point then when they came back in the Meroe period, the big building projects happened etc...

Anyway, that is part of why i am here. I made a scary discovery with my text book. It contradicts itself every other line especially the chapter on Meroe. It claims we know nothing about the Napata period but that there is a distinct and major change of an *internal* nature... And the Nubians establish themselves as this mega "empire". Sorry, i realize they had a good run in Egypt as Pharaoh, but i have trouble believing such a ppl would suddenly erect the mega structures with no education in the field that we can locate.

I am worried because my Text doesn't offer many theories about things it presents 1 theory as fact. Then when you keep reading finally it says well truly we really don't know anything.... Other theories do exist. Also some of the choices of wording are creeping me out... And some of the claims made are odd too because they are about places that haven't even been excavated yet....

So i did the research and it turns out that the guy who wrote the book has done alot of work in Nubia and is actually my professor.... Which creeps me out even worse. Agendeology
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What studies do you follow, Mandi?
And could u elaborate on the professor/textbook pls?
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Mandi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: You bet i could! Reply with quote

For the record, on America taking over... The invasion has begun... You are behid the times! First i have decided to annex your territory of Canada. (I have also been on atleast one scouting mission to your capital. hehehe (ok just kidding i was a teenager checking out UK) I have decided that i will use a non violent take over method first by infiltrating your education systems through your, Leicester University's distance archaeology program.... And go from there...
My text books from this course include, The Oxford History Of Ancient Egypt and also The Nubian Past An Archaeology Of the Sudan. (Have you heard of the second one? It may just be my lack of experience in this field but some things about it make me uncomfortable with it as a basis for a course... But it could very easily just all be in my head i dunno...) The author holds a PHD and is apparently rather involved in Nubia for some time.... Sooooo... I just don't know. I also am wondering if that is normal academically, to make your own book one of the 2 mandatory text books for a course... There is also a book of lectures but that is a bit less ummm... comprehensive though it is very nice and can be rather useful.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Edwards then? Sounds quite ok actually.
Funny how a Cambridge graduate would make an Oxford textbook mandatory. Razz
I've got none of his books, but I think he worked with O'Connor: always a good reference.

As for making your own book a basis for your lessons: it's quite common.
Can work both ways really: better lessons 'cause you're more "into it" or worse lessons 'cause your book sucks.
But it's nice to see you've got an open mind: never settle with one opinion only.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes in academia it's common to have your own book as a required text.
I am the co-author of an online textbook (math) and it's mandatory for my students in one course (we're also kind enough to make it free of cost Smile ). It makes sense to use your own work as the basis for your course. After all that's where your expertise lies.

It could be a matter of terminology though. From what you say it sounds like the term "Napatan" may be used in a different way?

Another very good book about Ancient Nubia is Morkot's "The Black Pharoahs: Egypt's Nubian Rulers". A compare and contrast with that book may be useful. If you find that the theories of Morkot and your prof differ, then ask him about it. If he's a good teacher he should be happy about discussing the latest thoughts on the subject, and a genuine interest in his work and its relation to that of others would be seen as a good thing.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Thank you for the suggestions Reply with quote

And yes, it could be a different use of terms... Which would seem odd to me... I don't know why he wouldn't use a standard usage as we those taking this course are really only beginning their study on this subject. But my issue is more than that actually... I am not the one with a PHD. Honestly, on this subject i don't know my bumm from my elbo. Nor am i claiming to. I have no experience to speak of and i have no other sources from which to dreaw. But my nature is not one of a trusting sheep i am sadly afraid. (It can be quite troubling) I question everyone and everything. Including some of the word choices and presentations in this book... Example, he is talking about some structure which he has declared a temple. (It may well be even probably is.) But he presents it as a definate for several paragraphs. Then finally widdles in there that we don't infact know what it is and finally grudgingly admits other theories do exist. Names a couple but discusses neither. Then moves on to more about the "temple" (which till this point he has not been putting in quotations and has been asserting more as a fact than as a possibility that is highly likely.) Then he starts in on the architecture describing it in a specific way as very closed off... And goes a bit forcefully into an assertion it is a place of occult activity (He could be right, he probably is... But just because our culture views the occult as something more secretive and private... We can't read their writing our understanding of how they might have thought about it seems too limited to make any assertions what so ever Then he declares that this particular structure was built on a ummm "podium" (a word that gives in my opinion a certain connotation. It isn't to my knowledge an architectural term wouldn't "platform" be a better less.... assumptive term to use? Or is there some alternative meaning and use for the word podium, which i am unaware of?)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Sorry but i must continue... Reply with quote

But then what he does next, really made me raise an eyebrow, because he goes on with his book and comes to another large structure which he also declares to be a temple basing his reasoning on that the already described "temple" is a temple.... And ultimately several paragraphs later grudgingly admits that this site with this "temple" is not yet excavated.... Maybe i am missing something due to an incomplete knowledge and or experience with the sciences taken advantage by Archaeology. I am a student just beginning my studies. I am hugely interested and i want to become well versed in everything. And i don't want to undermine anyone... But i feel i need an explanation how one can make such definitive "suggestions" for things that have not yet been excavated based on entirely different sites? I am confused. I went through and read this chapter on Meroe upwards of three times niow.... I am also mildly bothered by how he says to ignore the "egyptianess" of so much claiming the rise of Meroe was solely caused by some internal aspect of "kushness" (Kushness is my word and most certainly not his.) I have trouble, accepting that the change from Napata culture was really related so solely to some internal Kushick attitudes etc and social structures and governmental structures and everything else involved.... I guess i just feel... If it likes water and it walks like a duck, says "Quack!" has webbed feet feathers and wings it is apparently a duck. But again he has actually been to Nubia and studied everything and is apparently wonderful at his job and the rest of his book is super informative and not at all confusing. (i think anyway) Very worthwhile and informative... I just wish in this case with the egyptian stuff if he would provide more on how and why the Kush so suddenly changed and what happened to the evidence of the development of these changes. Most change happens gradually everywhere else... Or someone else initiates the sudden change or something. But again, i haven't dug anywhere and i don't know anything. I do however feel uncomfortable with all this...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Thank you for the suggestions Reply with quote

nubian did make these changes on thier own gradually and large things were being built during the napatan period and earlier too.,if you look at the time period.
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