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A Phoenix Myth?

 
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: A Phoenix Myth? Reply with quote

help

I heard recently that the phoenix was part of an ancient egyptian myth, has anyone else heard of this? If so, what are the stories behind it?
I've personally never seen a phoenix in any egyptian artwork (not knowingly anyway), but I think they might have referred to the phoenix as another name. Confused

I'm sorry if someone's already asked about this before, but I did check, and couldn't find anything about it on the forum.

Any information would be very helpful, thanks. Very Happy
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked around on the internet and it seems that the Phoenix was known as the Bennu (or Benu) bird. The bird was associated with Re-Atum.

from touregypt:
"Another mythological symbol associated with the Creation Myth is the Phoenix. The Phoenix was said to travel from Arabia to Heliopolis once every five hundred years. The cycles of time were said to be set by the Phoenix, also known as the Benu bird, and the temple of the Phoenix became the "centre of calendrical regulation (Clark, 1960)." During the Middle Kingdom, it became the soul of Osiris and it was also at this time that it became associated with the planet Venus, the morning star, which was said to be the sun’s guide. All of the above representations were minor associations, however. The Phoenix’s main role was as the one who created himself, thus symbolizing Ra-Atum."

I never new the Phoenix was associated with Ancient Egypt.
Thanks for bringing that up Smile
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Gerard
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The subject is developped in Stephen Quirke 2001 The cult of Ra Sun-worship in A.E. (4 pages)
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I looked around on the internet and it seems that the Phoenix was known as the Bennu (or Benu) bird. The bird was associated with Re-Atum.


From what I've read there is a form of the Phoenix in many ancient cultures, and in the Harry Potter movies. Very Happy It's simply that the Greek myth is the one with which most people are familiar--rising from the ashes. The important part, as your post emphasized, was the idea of regeneration and self-creation, which was a central concept in Egyptian creation myths.

Oh, and there's also Phoenix, Arizona. That's a pretty important Phoenix, too.
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote anneke:

Quote:
I looked around on the internet and it seems that the Phoenix was known as the Bennu (or Benu) bird. The bird was associated with Re-Atum.


Thanks for the info, I was able to broaden my search from that.
If anyones interested, l@@k here:

http://wingedsundisksymbol.homestead.com/
Also follow the link to Pedigree of the phoenix on this page!

According to this site, the winged solar disk is related to solar eclipses, and in turn these were related to the benu bird (phoenix). In which case, if this notion is correct, I've not only seen representations of the benu bird, but I have one! As I have a large mirror with the winged solar disk over the top. Wink Does anyone know if these ideas are right?

Quote kmt_sesh:

Quote:
and in the Harry Potter movies. Very Happy


Embarassingly, that could be where I originally heard it (seeing as I can't actually remember), after all I have seen all the films. Wink

Thank-you all for your help Exclamation
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, the Egyptian phoenix is the Bennu bird alright. It's not the typical firebird of the HP books etc though, in Egypt it was a heron. I've seen representations of it, it's a heron with a sun disc, associated with rebirth/resurrection and with the sun and apparently Osiris as well. It's also a bird of creation and there is a creation myth about it-something about the cry of the bennu bird starting creation, or the bennu being the first creature to land on the primeval mound rising from the waters of chaos, or something along those lines.
I'm not sure if it inspired the Greek phoenix myth but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Embarassingly, that could be where I originally heard it (seeing as I can't actually remember), after all I have seen all the films.


I have all the Harry Potter films on DVD, including the latest release. Terrific films they are.

It can be quite problematic to explain ancient Egyptian concepts of magic to young kids at our musuem, so when I see them giving me a confused expression I just shrug and say, "It's Harry Potter stuff." Then they understand. Very Happy
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Khepesh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
It's also a bird of creation and there is a creation myth about it-something about the cry of the bennu bird starting creation, or the bennu being the first creature to land on the primeval mound rising from the waters of chaos, or something along those lines.


I believe it had something to do with its cry breaking the silence of Nun (the primeval waters) and thus heralded a change, which Amun or Re then took as a signal to begin creation. It's been awhile since I've read the mythos surrounding the Bennu, but the 'cry breaking the silence' part seems to stick out in my memory.
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mysteries of ancient egypt- "like the greek phoenix, the egyptian bennu bird was connected with the sun and rebirth. as a sacred bid of heliopolis, the bennu wqs closely associated with the solar deities re and atum, and with the obelisk and the benben stone.
in the pyramid texts, the bennu bird appears as a yellow wagtail, but by the advent of the book of the dead, it was being represented as a kind of grey heron, with a long straight beak, and a two feathered crest.
chapter 83 of the book of the dead was the 'spell for being transformed into the bennu bird'"

by lorna oakes and lucia gahlin
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