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anneke
Queen of Egypt
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 7882
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject: Herodotus on Egypt |
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There's a copy of Herodotus's Book 2 here:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/GreekScience/hdtbk2.html
It's interesting to read through. Some of it seems to come from what the Egyptians themselves know about their history.
Some of it just seems wrong. I wonder if some of the priests were "pulling H's leg"?
There are some interesting anecdotes:
Helen (from Troy) visiting Egypt
Stories about the worhip of Bulls
One thing confusing to me is reading about all their gods with their Greek names:
Zeus = Amon
Hephaestus = Ptah
Leto = Snake goddess Buto
Herodotus mentions Leto quite a bit, and even mentions her temple as an oracle. I have never heard of Buto plying such a big role.
She was of course, with the vulture goddess Nekhbet, a protectress of Egypt.
Other things "jump out' at any of you from the reading? |
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isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. Is it true that a lot of H's writing about Egypt has been disproved? or was that someone else? I read somewhere that he got a lot of things wrong.
Never knew about the Hepheastus-Ptah and Leto-Buto connections though. Or the Dionysus-Osiris one he mentions.
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isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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As for things that stand out, there's quite a lot of stuff I've never heard of, like all the different customs of the Egyptians.
I never knew about the Helen of troy bit. They did mention that in the 'Ramses' novels by Jacq, but I thought that was fictional.
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anneke
Queen of Egypt
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 7882
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| isisinacrisis wrote: | | Hmm. Is it true that a lot of H's writing about Egypt has been disproved? or was that someone else? I read somewhere that he got a lot of things wrong. |
I think his writings are thought to include many mistakes and misunderstandings but in large give an interesting impression of Egypt. It sounds like some of the festivals are described from his own observations.
He did travel in Egypt for several months (ca 450BC) and wrote down his observations.
He did not speak egyptian, nor could he read hieroglyphics. He relied heavily on translators. I saw it mentioned as well that he may have mistaken temple underlings for priests, and so he may not have actually spoken to the most knowledgeable people.
| isisinacrisis wrote: | | Never knew about the Hepheastus-Ptah and Leto-Buto connections though. Or the Dionysus-Osiris one he mentions. |
I didn't know that either. I found it hard to read about the temples, sometimes not knowing what the equivalent egyptian god would be.
We had discussed (somewhere on the board) the equivalence between some of the Egyptian Gods with some of the Greek Gods. I found it rather neat to see that here again. |
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Styler78
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 100
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the link Anneke- I am very interested to know more of what Herodotus had to say. Does "book2" mean there is a book1?
Its a shame that the original documents have long since disappeared and so we rely on quotes from later writers to know what Herodotus saw and wrote.
Interesting stuff though... even if partly wrong |
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kmt_sesh
Moderator
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 6797
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Styler78 wrote: | Thank you for the link Anneke- I am very interested to know more of what Herodotus had to say. Does "book2" mean there is a book1?
Its a shame that the original documents have long since disappeared and so we rely on quotes from later writers to know what Herodotus saw and wrote.
Interesting stuff though... even if partly wrong |
Herodotus' The Histories is actually a collection of books, of which the section he wrote on Egypt is just one. He visited Egypt around 450 BCE as he traveled through the Near East, and spent a long time interviewing native inhabitants to learn about their cultures and histories.
The Histories is a wonderful read. Copies are cheap and widely available, such as at Borders or Amazon.
Although a number of learned Greek logographers preceded him, such as Hecataeus, Herodotus was the first writer who truly tried to examine both cause and effect in the recent past. This is why he's been dubbed the "Father of History." He was chiefly exploring the great wars of 490 and 480 BCE between the Greeks and the Persians, and the events that caused the conflicts, so his travels brought him to many of the areas where the Persian empire held sway. The Persians were ruling Egypt when he visited there.
One mistake I've seen people make is trying to use The Histories as primary source material for research. A lot of fringe and alternative writers do this, apparently without knowing better. The Histories contains plenty of factual errors and incorrect assumptions on Herodotus' part. It's still a wonderful and illuminating read, but the student needs an understanding of ancient Egyptian history from current research sources before turning to Herodotus for the facts. 
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Osiris II
Vizier
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1350
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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I noticed in reading "The Histories" Herodotus usually will say that the following "was told to me by the priests", or "it was generally believed", always warning the careful reader that what he was about to say was not especially his own opinion, but what he had been told by those supposedly "in the know".
I was heard that reading of his travels was seeing the first travel-log! He certainly expressed some wild and far-out descriptions of places and things...  |
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Segereh
Pharaoh
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 2910
Location: Bruges
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Osiris II wrote: | I noticed in reading "The Histories" Herodotus usually will say that the following
"was told to me by the priests", or "it was generally believed", always warning the
careful reader that what he was about to say was not especially his own opinion,
but what he had been told by those supposedly "in the know". |
I'm pretty sure that modern day Egyptian guides are direct descendants of those priests.
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Styler78
Scribe
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 100
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Kmt_Sesh wrote:
| Quote: | | One mistake I've seen people make is trying to use The Histories as primary source material for research |
I have read a lot of the Book2 and have already seen inconsistencies, which threw me a bit. At this early stage of research, i will certainly read Herodotus with a pinch of salt so this doesn't happen too often...
Segereh wrote:
| Quote: | | I'm pretty sure that modern day Egyptian guides are direct descendants of those priests. |
Couldn't agree more...
I have an example of this. My guide last year told me that the Hieroglyphs at Philae are "just gibberish" and took my concerns to Glyphdoctors and was astonished to hear how badly i had been advised. Now i am familiar with the beautiful Hymns to Isis and the like, which make perfect sense- my guide just couldn't read Ptolemaic Hieroglyphs- but felt it unnecessary to say this......
The Priests sound a bit like "some bloke at the pub told me...."
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