Egyptian Dreams

anneke · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: October 3 ARCE Meeting in Chicago

I just noticed Dr Peter Brand spoke on October 3.
“War and Peace in the Bronze Age: Ramesses II and the Hittite Empire"

Any of you attend the lecture? kmt-sesh, Bob?

I'm curious about the lecture Very Happy

BobManske · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject:

Yes, we did.

Is that all you wanted to know?

Bob.

****

All seriousness aside: yes Kmt-Sesh and I and my wife attended the lecture. It was quite good and I wasn't very careful so I learned a few things.

Actually, the focus was on the relations between Egypt and Hatti after Kadesh and also touched on the political organization - or disorganization - of the Levant region during that time.

Kadesh was taken several times by the Egyptians but it always reverted to its Hittite allegiance, mainly because the Egyptians did not maintain a field army in Syria, their expeditions returned to Egypt at the conclusion of the campaign and relied on their client states to maintain order. Which they did - occasionally. That much I already knew. What I didn't know was that even after Kadesh, Ramesses II campaigned often in the area, included even north of Kadesh all the way toward Aleppo and the area of what is now Antioch. But those places are much closer to Hattusas then Memphis, so the Hittite threat was always more paramount than the Egyptian one. All that Hatti had to do was wait on the Egyptians to leave.

And Brand made that point that it would be expensive for the Egyptians to keep a permanent military force up that far north. So it seems to me that maybe all these Egyptians expeditions were were smash and grab operations. Show the flag, let 'em know we're here, let 'em know we're tough, and take their stuff. After a while, Ramesses got older and less inclined to participate in this particular hobby, so he and the Hittites declared peace on each other. And a couple of Hittite princesses visited Egypt - permanently.

The Hittites had an Assyrian problem which the Egyptians did not. So not only did they sign a non-aggression pact, they expanded it to include mutual assistance and extradition. The latter two points were never actually exercised, including the fact that a deposed king of Hatti was living in Egypt at the time, as a guest of Ramesses, and the Hittites wanted him back - to assist them in their inquiries, no doubt. Or possibly something darker. Anyway, they kept asking Ramesses to turn him over to the new Hittite administration and Ramesses' reply was basically "what are you talking about? I can't understand you. Too many words."

Brand also pointed out that ancient kings loved war, it was what kings were expected to do. It occurs to me that as a result, the Egyptians were never really serious about establishing permanent control over the region. It was enough to maintain a presence during the campaigning season, then come home and call it a good war. And everybody's happy except maybe for the peasant who's lost his crops, maybe his wife, and possibly a daughter or two.

But, hey, those are just women. What this country really needs is a good five cent cigar. A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke.

Have I irritated you enough, now Anneke? Are you going to come up to the next ARCE meeting and pound me? Cause we'd really love to see you again, and soon. November's will be a good meeting. Ann Macy Roth will talk about O.K. mastabas. December's will be a holiday party following a lecture by Courtney Kleinschmidt-Jacobson on monkey jugs. Yep, monkey jugs. If that doesn't get you to Chicago, Anneke, I don't what will. Really, I can speak for Kmt-sesh on this, come on up and see us, soon. We'll make a day of it. And I won't make any more sexist remarks like those above.

Bob
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anneke · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject:

kmt_sesh · Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:18 am Post subject:

Yes, I also attended. It was a very enjoyable lecture--what I could hear of it over Bob's snoring, that is.

Just kidding. Bob behaved like a gentleman. He had to, with his wife there. And a very nice lady she is, not to mention a fellow graphic designer. I, on the other hand, behaved just awful, but let's not go there.

In all honesty it was a terrific lecture. Peter Brand is the kind of guy who leaves me feeling intellectually inadequate. Not only is he highly intelligent and accomplished, as well as a very engaging speaker, but, dammit, he's also younger than I am!

Um, disregard that. I sound emotionally needy. Anxious

I had gone to the lecture feeling a little luke warm about it, to be honest. How many times have we all read about the battle of Kadesh? I figured one more time couldn't hurt, so I was trying to fire myself up for it. It was a pleasant surprise, then, when Brand's focus, like Bob said, was on the period following the great battle, and all of the subsequent campaigns and political intrigue that took place.

Brand spiced it up with some well-placed humor that we all enjoyed. I think the opening slide he used was a picture of a statue of Ramesses II on the left, and on the right a photo of Yul Brynner as pharaoh.

We followed up the lecture with the usual assortment of wine and treats. And wine. Conversation and wine. Did I mention the wine?

You ought to come up next month, Anneke. The lecture about the chapels at the Met sounds like a good one. As of now I'm planning on going to this one, too. That will make three months in a row. My, for me this is a wild social life. Laughing

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BobManske · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject:

anneke · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject:

anneke · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject: November 7 meeting

Are you guys still going to the November 7 meeting?
I'm planning on driving up to Chicago early on Saturday, so I can go.

Anyone else planning on joining? Very Happy

BobManske · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:29 am Post subject: Re: November 7 meeting

anneke · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject:

I plan on driving up on Friday.
On Saturday I was thinking of going to the Field in the morning as well.

I hope we can meet up in the morning as well. It's always fun to walk through an exhibit like that with like minded people.
And I would like John to give his "language tour" Very Happy

anneke · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject:

Ugh. I have to cancel my trip due to health reasons.
I'm really bummed about that. I was really looking forward to it.

BobManske · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject:

kmt_sesh · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:46 am Post subject:

Sorry to hear that, anneke. I hope you feel better very soon.

And don't worry about missing the language tour. I actually haven't started giving it. I'm too burned out lately to start up something new, even though the initial work has been done. Emily Teeter has helped with a couple of inscriptions too (she rocks, you know).

You won't want to miss the December meeting, though. There's the holiday party Bob mentioned, plus Bob will be performing the Dance of the Seven Veils. He's been practicing all fall.

I hope to see you on Saturday, Bob. I'm still equivocating about going to the lecture, even though it sounds like one I'd really enjoy. Work has been hellish lately and I'm beat. I'm afraid I'd fall asleep at the lecture and start snoring. Well, so I usually do that, but what if I experience night terrors? Razz

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