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Need The Source Picture For This
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xshat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Need The Source Picture For This Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/v/pM03Q1qFbjs

I need the source picture for this can't find it anywhere. This seems to be an extremely important piece of Egyptian art concerning reptillian bloodlines. It is shown in the film Secret Space 2 by Chris Everard, who indicates it is located on the walls of the Temple of Hathor. I have searched for many hours online and have been unable to find it.
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xshat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM03Q1qFbjs
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but they do not look like real heiroglyphs to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is a row of deities from the underworld from the Book of the Gates.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
I think that is a row of deities from the underworld from the Book of the Gates.


Doubtful: from the little I could perceive, the style looks like a modern (post 17th century CE) rendering of a Ptolemaic decorative scheme. Definitely the snake-tailed female and the "king" figure looked to be a modern rendering of a Ptolemaic styled character.

I gather the documentary didn't give a clue about this picture, did it? "Avian serpents" indeed. Rolling Eyes
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xshat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He says they are on the walls of the Temple of Hathor but all the pictures I have found do not show this one. If they are fake, then the documentary is lying by saying Egyptians showed the serpent/human hybrids next to the ruling elite.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xshat wrote:
He says they are on the walls of the Temple of Hathor but all the pictures I have found do not show this one. If they are fake, then the documentary is lying by saying Egyptians showed the serpent/human hybrids next to the ruling elite.


You can be darned sure that the imagery inside the Hathoric Dendera Temple shows nothing of the kind.

"Winged snakes" are usually genii of the underworld or specific deities such as Wadjet (often portrayed as a winged serpent), and if this appears within the temple of Hathor at Dendera, which is a Ptolemaic temple, you can be assured that the imagery isn't about "flying snkes" ruling alongside man, but the representation of mythic creatures which appear in the underworld texts within the temple.

I really despise it when people take mythic creatures - such as griffins, dragons, snakes with wings, etc. and assume that simply because it's depicted on a wall or relief somewhere, it means it actually existed. If I depicted the Easter Bunny on a sheet of paper, does that make it "real", or can an image exist of a fantasy creature of my own (or a society's) creation for purposes of belief for whatever purpose?

Does imagination count for nothing, even amongst ancient peoples?

There have been many reports of recent rethinking of "mythic creatures" such as cyclops, griffins, dragons, and so on as our ancient ancestors' attempt to explain prehitsoric fossils (what? you thought only modern man from the 17th century onward found such fossils?).

For most scholars, this makes more sense than trying to state with all the sincere solemnity of someone without a clue and an axe to grind that snake-bottomed ladies ruled alongside the Pharoahs of Egypt.

Puh-lease.

Modern interpretation seems to impose certain ideas that the ancient man would have never thought about as well, For example, if I depict a dove with a ray of sunlight around it, does that mean it's always the "Holy Spirit" because that's how modern churches so depits it? Could I, as a person from ancient times, simply mean a dove is shown flying along the sun's path? The usual explanation of the "winged" snake in Egyptian myth is that

- solar creatures are winged (goddesses, genii, and even demonic enemies of the sun are winged so they can travel with, or oppose, the high-flying solar god, Ra);
- Wadjet and Nekhebet are mythically tied to the sun-god, and are thereby his solar creatures, which leads,
QED, Wadjet is shown winged because she is one of the goddesses (along with Nekhebet) who are associated closely with the sun-god, Ram and his mythos.

It's really a dangerous thing to interpret ancient past imagery or concepts in modern parlance, because it simply does not mean the same thing in about 95+% of cases.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I saw the same thing in this really, really, really awful video on YouTube. I sometimes like to check out YouTube videos about Egypt just to see how people interpret the ancient culture in their own terms. Usually it's good for a laugh, sometimes it makes you shake your head, and other times you just want to scream.

I wish the fringe would do us all a favor and avoid misinterpreting ancient art and culture for their own loony agendas. Mad
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xshat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
xshat wrote:
He says they are on the walls of the Temple of Hathor but all the pictures I have found do not show this one. If they are fake, then the documentary is lying by saying Egyptians showed the serpent/human hybrids next to the ruling elite.


You can be darned sure that the imagery inside the Hathoric Dendera Temple shows nothing of the kind.

"Winged snakes" are usually genii of the underworld or specific deities such as Wadjet (often portrayed as a winged serpent), and if this appears within the temple of Hathor at Dendera, which is a Ptolemaic temple, you can be assured that the imagery isn't about "flying snkes" ruling alongside man, but the representation of mythic creatures which appear in the underworld texts within the temple.

I really despise it when people take mythic creatures - such as griffins, dragons, snakes with wings, etc. and assume that simply because it's depicted on a wall or relief somewhere, it means it actually existed. If I depicted the Easter Bunny on a sheet of paper, does that make it "real", or can an image exist of a fantasy creature of my own (or a society's) creation for purposes of belief for whatever purpose?

Does imagination count for nothing, even amongst ancient peoples?

There have been many reports of recent rethinking of "mythic creatures" such as cyclops, griffins, dragons, and so on as our ancient ancestors' attempt to explain prehitsoric fossils (what? you thought only modern man from the 17th century onward found such fossils?).

For most scholars, this makes more sense than trying to state with all the sincere solemnity of someone without a clue and an axe to grind that snake-bottomed ladies ruled alongside the Pharoahs of Egypt.

Puh-lease.

Modern interpretation seems to impose certain ideas that the ancient man would have never thought about as well, For example, if I depict a dove with a ray of sunlight around it, does that mean it's always the "Holy Spirit" because that's how modern churches so depits it? Could I, as a person from ancient times, simply mean a dove is shown flying along the sun's path? The usual explanation of the "winged" snake in Egyptian myth is that

- solar creatures are winged (goddesses, genii, and even demonic enemies of the sun are winged so they can travel with, or oppose, the high-flying solar god, Ra);
- Wadjet and Nekhebet are mythically tied to the sun-god, and are thereby his solar creatures, which leads,
QED, Wadjet is shown winged because she is one of the goddesses (along with Nekhebet) who are associated closely with the sun-god, Ram and his mythos.

It's really a dangerous thing to interpret ancient past imagery or concepts in modern parlance, because it simply does not mean the same thing in about 95+% of cases.


The assumption that everard insists on is that reptillian extraterrestrials interbred with the ruling elite classes of egypt and that this happened to all societies and cultures but there was a "law" that the people could not depict them in their true form (like a humanoid dragon) so they always used the symbolism of the serpent and winged serpent is the highest caste in their order.

I guess if you watched it then it would explain his assumptions more clearly. I'm just trying to find the actual source of this picture whether it's in hathor or not.
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xshat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something also explained by everard is the symbolic usage of the pinecone to represent the creation of life (held by a half serpent/human hybrid annunaki)
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As neseret explained to you in her excellent post, THE CARVING IS NOT IN THE HATHOR TEMPLE. Read her posting more carefully! As she said, the semi-snakelike figures are in the afterworld, and not representitive of any earthly rulers of Egypt.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the other hand, the "creatures" remind me the Jollois/Devilliers depictions of the "decanate" figurines on the Dendera's Zodiac

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Leena
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, the Denderah zodiac... I think I'll make a painting of it one day.
Wasn't there some interesting story about it that related to Champollion... He used a cartouche somewhere around this zodiac as one key through which he cracked the code of the hieroglyphs. He never saw the zodizc / cartouche in question, but used a painting by the Napoleon's "Savants" as his study reference.

When later he finally got his chance to go to Egypt and visited Denderah he saw the cartouche was actually totally empty. The artist had used his imagination and filled the cartouche with text that was never there...

Leena Smile
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xshat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
As neseret explained to you in her excellent post, THE CARVING IS NOT IN THE HATHOR TEMPLE. Read her posting more carefully! As she said, the semi-snakelike figures are in the afterworld, and not representitive of any earthly rulers of Egypt.

I can read, but you can't. i asked for the source of the picture.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obvious;y, you didn't read neseret's posting:
the style looks like a modern (post 17th century CE) rendering of a Ptolemaic decorative scheme. Definitely the snake-tailed female and the "king" figure looked to be a modern rendering.

There is no source--it's made up! At best, a mordern rendering of an existing carving.
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