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Literacy in ancient Egypt.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Segereh wrote:
Sweet of u, oh respected right-hand to pharaoh... Wink

Shocked


Rolling Eyes Sorry, lassie, forgot about the euhm... honorary title...
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Segereh
Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have I ever written in a thread that didn't go way astray?
Sorry for that. Smile
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Thought it was funny, but didn't know if you made that quip intentionally or not.

Gotta go drop my mom off at the airport....
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope she'll have a nice trip.
When she's back, tell her I said 'hi'.

Now I wonder how I come up with 15,61 messages a day. Confused
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The strange inscriptions come from intrusive burials in the tomb of Iurdedef.

According to Saqqara Online:
Quote:
Iurudef was a Scribe of theTreasury of Amun and Scribe of the God’s Offerings during the reign of Ramesses II (1290-1224 B.C.). More significant for his career was his relationship with the Overseer of the Treasury Tia. He seems to have acted as the latter’s private secretary and may even have been responsible for the construction of Tia’s tomb at Saqqara. This would explain the fact that Iurudef is not only represented in a number of places in the tomb (and also on the walls of another monument built by Tia at Kafr el-Gebel, near Giza) but even had his own burial-shaft within the precinct of his master. If we add that Iurudef may have been the tutor of Ramose, the famous scribe of the village of Deir el-Medina, he becomes a fascinating figure in his own right.

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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way too good credentials to be illiterate and not knowing how to inscribe your own tomb indeed. Confused
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again from Saqqara Online:

Quote:
But Iurudef’s relatives were not the last persons to be buried here. At some stage, the tomb was robbed and its contents burnt. During the Third Intermediate Period (somewhere between 1100 and 850 B.C.), the four chambers of the upper level were re-used for the burial of about seventy people. This was a period of great impoverishment, at least in Memphis. Accordingly, there were badly-mummified corpses wrapped in palm-stick mats, children in papyrus coffers or rectangular boxes, and only 27 proper coffins. The latter are of great interest because of their obvious lack of craftsmanship. The construction is poor, the decoration full of ill-understood details, and the texts have been written in pseudo-hieroglyphs. Burial-gifts were rare and were restricted to some amulets or beads for the interments of women and children. Analysis of the skeletons has shown that the state of health was abominable. The find of this intrusive cache has proved to be highly important for a better understanding of the post-New Kingdom use of the Saqqara necropolis.


I will keep looking to find a picture of these "pseudo-hieroglyphics".
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also found the following:
Quote:

'Pseudo-hieroglyphs'

There are numerous instances within Egypt of hieroglyphs being used wrongly and it is possible that the use of hieroglyphs had developed amuletic properties regardless of their role as a script. Much of Egyptian ornament of the Twenty-first Dynasty falls into this class of symbols used for reassurance without verbal explanation. For example, the sculpture of Astemakhabit contains "pseudo-text" which "demonstrates that little need was felt to supplement the symbolic forms by words" (Goff 1979: 135). Goff questions whether the text itself was inherently potent apart from any comprehensible meaning.

Many faience and metal objects produced during the Twenty-second and Twenty-third Dynasties contain incomprehensible hieroglyphs: a faience spacer in the Eton collection (Eton 459.24.6.), has two cartouches, one containing meaningless hieroglyphs and one with the signs "wpt-rnpt-nfrt" (Tait 1963: 130). A double-sided faience spacer from Tuna-el-Gebel, of the Twenty-first/Twenty-second Dynasty, executed in the most minute detail, has three cartouches engraved on the piece, all three illegible (Muscarella 1974: plate 224).


This seems to indicate that it was during the later periods that these pseudo-hieroglyphics appear. I wonder if it was due to a decline in literacy, or if the symbolic nature became more important than the actual words (as this author asks.)

from: http://phoenicia.org/phoeegypt.html
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, would be nice. Smile

Going nighty-night, it's not so late but it's election-day in Flanders tomorrow. I'm not a big fan of particracy (do not say democracy, u'll surely awaken the libertarian in me), but I'll conciously vote, hoping Vlaams Blok (Flemish Front, extreme right party with a 'cordon sanitaire' against it, but already holding 27% of Belgian votes!) doesn't gain seats in parliament again.

Good night, sleep tight.
Don't let the bad bugs bite.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'would be nice' was on the depiction of the pseudo-hieroglyphs. Nice site by the way, think I stumbled on it sometime before. Doesn't it say somewhere Egyptian language was derived from Phoenician? Too lazy to look it up. Smile
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