Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

True son of Pharaoh

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Montu
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: True son of Pharaoh Reply with quote

Apologies for another stupid question but I read somewhere and unfortunately i can't for the life of me remember where that Akhenaten was refered to as "the TRUE son of pharaoh" in several inscriptions which was apparently very rare - is this implying that there was some controversy? Or could it be because he was somewhat disfigured or was of unusual appearance and so was done simply to reaffirm his status?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a reference to a "king's true son" but this was a prince named Akheperre in Theban tomb 226 from the time of Amenhotep III.
Not sure if it would have been a brother or a son of Amenhotep III
(from Akhenaten at Thebes by N. de G. Davies, The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, Vol. 9, No. 3/4 (Oct., 1923), pp. 132-152)

I can't figure out though what the actual inscription was. I wondered if it was the same as "king's son of his body" or not.

I have never heard of any inscriptions related to Akhenaten that mention him as a King's Son. He's though to be identical to a prince Amenhotep, but other than that were would he be given the title "king's son" (true or not)? The title of King would trump that one wouldn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I found a reference to a "king's true son" but this was a prince named Akheperre in Theban tomb 226 from the time of Amenhotep III.
Not sure if it would have been a brother or a son of Amenhotep III
(from Akhenaten at Thebes by N. de G. Davies, The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, Vol. 9, No. 3/4 (Oct., 1923), pp. 132-152)

I can't figure out though what the actual inscription was. I wondered if it was the same as "king's son of his body" or not.

I have never heard of any inscriptions related to Akhenaten that mention him as a King's Son. He's though to be identical to a prince Amenhotep, but other than that were would he be given the title "king's son" (true or not)? The title of King would trump that one wouldn't it?


As far as I am aware, the only reference to Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten is that as "king's son" is from a wine jar sealing, which states the wine came from the estate of the "king's son, Amenhotep." Here is the seal inscription:



The title of "true son" is fairly rare: usually the expression is "son of the king's own body", which indicates the king has recognised a specific son as his own (and thus includes him as part of the immediate royal family), or sometimes the reference is to a prince as "eldest son," which denote a prince's standing in the hierarchy, again a title granted by boon from the ruling king. A king was under no obligation to only pick the first-born son as his heir, as Baud's 1999 study indicates.

Bryan (1991) in her study of Thutmose IV indicates that these children shown within TT 226 on Heqareshu's knees are brothers of Amenhotep III, and not his children. As I recall, Amenhotep III himself is represented there (but I might recall wrongly).

Reference:

Baud, M. 1999. Famille royale et pouvir sous l'Ancien Empire égyptien. (2 Vols.) Bibliothèque d'Étude 126. Cairo: IFAO.

Bryan, B. M. 1991. The Reign of Thutmose IV. Baltimore and London: The Johns Hopkins University Press.

Dodson, A. and D. Hilton. 2004. The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt. London: Thames and Hudson.

HTH.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks neseret. The wine jar label just calls him a king's son if I understand the image? or is the dD before the title part of a longer title translated as true king's son?

But given that this is the only time we see Akhenaten as a prince, there cannot be other instances where he is given a special designation as a king's son.

There's another variation of the king's son title used during the Ramesside period which (may have?) indicated status as crown prince if I remember correctly, but this does not seem to be that one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
The wine jar label just calls him a king's son if I understand the image? or is the dD before the title part of a longer title translated as true king's son?


No. "King's true son" would equal something like /sA nsw.t mAa/. The /dD/ in the seal is broken word, but possibly refers to the type of wine within.

anneke wrote:
There's another variation of the king's son title used during the Ramesside period which (may have?) indicated status as crown prince if I remember correctly, but this does not seem to be that one.


I'll look into it, but offhand I can't recall any significant variation.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nefertum
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:

There's another variation of the king's son title used during the Ramesside period which (may have?) indicated status as crown prince if I remember correctly, but this does not seem to be that one.


Are you by chance thinking of Eldest King's Son (of his Body)? Amenhirkopshef, Ramesses, and Merenptah all seem to have held that title as heir, although, curiously, Khaemwaset between Ramesses and Merenptah doesn't appear to have done so.

Amenhirkopshef also seems to have had the titulary of First King's Son of his Body.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group