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Opinions- Why is Ancient Egypt so spiritual to many people?
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kinhshea
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reading people comparing christianity to Egypt... The "bible" as it existed before forgery, translation, etc may have been a little similar. Even so, I think the only "similarities" that do exist, could come from the fact that Egypt probably greatly influenced christianity. I've read different places that, for example, the 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, etc. could be parables for the signs of the zodiac. Also that Tutankhamun was very similar to Jesus Christ (jesus being an archer, a.k.a sagitarius would look extremely similar to Tut who was often depicted hunting game.) Before the old testament became male dominatied-monothesiestic the word that got translated into "God" was actually elohim which is plural for god (meaning gods). And the cult of Asherah (gods supposed wife) was erased, as well as the feminine forms of god (the word used to describe God when moses saw the burning bush, for example, was originally feminine...) I've also noticed that alot of the names are very similar to egytian names. Moses sister Mariam (meri-amon possibly), Solomon, philemon... the word "Amen" in general, etc., etc. Very Happy
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kinhshea
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Christianity is much like the ancients Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
Rip Li wrote:
Ancient Christianity is VERY much like the ancient Egyptian religion, only we serve one God, and they, many.


Confused Arf?


My original reaction Laughing
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Rip Li
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:27 am    Post subject: Hi all Reply with quote

Hi again. Nice promotion Segereh! Cool

I never take offense about religion. No worries. I don't mind being corrected if someone has better proof either, as long as they don't attack me personally. Lets all make sure we allow people to air their views without fear. Between us all, we will come up with the right answers!

The Ankh is a sandal and a cross. The Egyptians did worship a diety that spawned lesser ones. That is true.

I love Ramesses. He was sexy Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! faroah
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As enthousiastic as ever. Smile
Welcome back and thanks!
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

selecting some things dragonlady wrote:


Actually . . . The egyptians believed in a creator, who was all powerful, all knowing. But was formless and nameless. Beyond definition, really beyond comprehension. From this creator stemmed the many Gods.

Personally I think that the eqyptian religion has such a broad appeal is because it is so ancient. It is timeless, and has influenced many religions through out the world. Christianity being one of them.

Christians came from the jews, and the jews spent a lot of time in Eqypt. They had to have picked up something.

So it is familiar and exotic, and it is also rather vague. Vague for us rather. As modern people these ancient and exotic gods are appealing, creative, and can give us a sense of mystery. But because the culture and time is so far removed from us, we can pick and choose what parts of the religion we will take, and what parts we will leave.

Christianity, while also ancient, is still very much a living breathing religion, and growing all around us. It is much harder to connect with that religion and pick and choose what you want to take and interpret the way that you would like.

An Ancient religion however, it is subject to interpretation, and however much we think we know is still wrapped in mystery.
...

So to sum up, I think that many are fascinated with the religion because,

It is familiar enough to be comforatable, yet mysterious enough to be exciting. It is timeless, and it is very clear that we have only begun to scratch the surface.


I agree with the fact that the egyptian religion has had some influence on christianity.
Madonna and child - Isis with the child Horus
Animal/human combinations among angels - Egyptian gods.
etc.
They are very far from similar though in my humble opinion. One of the defining characteristics of christianity is its monotheistic nature. Can't deviate much further from that than the egyptian mythological world I would say.

I really doubt that this is why Egypt appeals to people though. Most people (even the most avid fans) don't know that much about Egyptian mythology and its place in history.

I think it's appealing because it's exotic, mysterious, the objects they find are beautiful, the history they uncover seems to address all aspects of humanity (love, war, strife, beauty)

And something several people here have said: We know enough to provide enough a framework, but the knowledge is lacking to a point that we can all "play along" with the experts.
Somehow egyptology is easier to delve into by layman. I am most definitely NOT saying that it's an easy discipline! It's not. But the experts have done a great job of writing texts that are accessible to the "common public".
(Not trying to call all of us common Laughing You know what I mean.)

I think that last point is an important one. How many other academic disciplines have received such thorough PR blitz of books, movies, documentaries, etc? And they have sustained that for decades.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good point on the literature.

Never really thought about it, but it's true, even disregarding all romanticized or fictional works, even most books from high regarded historians concerning Egypt, tend to be accesable and nice to read. Something which is harder to say of most other scientific disciplins.

I know why I feel drawn to Egypt.
Plain and simple it's because I love beauty.
Lots of that to be found in Ancient Egypt.
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dragonlady
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye a good point indeed. So much of what we know is so vague, that it's easy for one to call themselves an expert, and hard to disprove what they claim.

I cannot so easily explain my obsession. It is an obsession.
Part of it is that I am obsessed with the ancient dead as it is. If it's mummified I want to know more about it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha ha! Laughing

Well I suppose one could always come up with theories and similarities between Christianity and ancient Egypt. As a Christian, I say that I don't feel any spiritual connections with ancient Egypt. I have always been fascinated with ancient Egypt as a child but as an ancient civilisation, along with others that I like.

Mythology is interesting but I believe that Christianity is a religion in itself and don't think that the Egyptian religion rubbed off on it particularly. I know I don't know much about the theories that have circulated around this. I just know a few details.

For me I think in order to believe differently from the theories it is a matter of faith. I trust God's word in saying that Christianity is like no other religion.
Another thing, the history of Israel seems very different according to the Bible.
The belief that this one God is the only one is a key difference.
What may seem like a small difference (having one God) is actually a huge one and when it comes to Jesus in the New Testement, well, the difference is huge!
I know that the Isralites encountered Egypt quite a lot but they contsantly seem different from the Egyptians.
I suppose it depends on how much you believe in the Bible's authenticity in what it says, which equals to how much you dissaprove or believe the theories.

An example of difference would be the Ankh. The theory is that the idea of the cross came from it but how many similar symbols to the cross are there? Loads probably so why would the cross be chosen and not the Ankh if it was the inspiration? I think the symbol of the cross therefore must be specificaly the cross for a reason. The idea that the symbol of the cross comes from the crucifiction of Jesus seems to be completely seperate from the Ankh.

Also, the idea that the Jewish religion was inspired by Egyptian culture and religion, therefore bringing Christianity, is not really that plausable I reckon. Even if the Jews were inspired by it (which I don't think is true), most didn't believe in Jesus, so they wouldn't have influenced the religion. Also, the few Jews that did believe in him (later called Christians) would have no reason to make him up. Historicaly, Jesus was proven to have existed. It's just a matter of if you believe that he is the son of God or not.

*Phew* That was a lot of typing. Shocked
Well seemed like it anyway.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunshine wrote:
Even if the Jews were inspired by it (which I don't think is true), most didn't believe in Jesus, so they wouldn't have influenced the religion.


Jesus was a Jew, and so was John the Baptist (and every one else in the Holy family for that matter). The Christians did not throw out the old beliefs of the jews, they just call them the old testament. (Somewhat of an over-simplification of events I know Smile)
The Mosiac Laws are still part of Christianity (most of em anyway) and they were written by Moses after living all of his life in Egypt. Don't honestly see how he could have avoided being influenced by Egyptian beliefs. He may have rejected quite a few, but even rejection of certain ideas shape how you think about others.
I think their time in Egypt helped shape the faith of the Jews and hence any religion that sprang forth from it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Don't honestly see how he could have avoided being influenced by Egyptian beliefs. He may have rejected quite a few, but even rejection of certain ideas shape how you think about others.
I think their time in Egypt helped shape the faith of the Jews and hence any religion that sprang forth from it.


U've put your finger exactly on what I was thinking again. Smile
Stop doing that. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As one of my friends once said:

Great minds think alike, and by amazing coincidence so do ours Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hèhè. Smile
Your godess still goes miauw though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweety, as a priest of Amen who has rams horns, it's short step indeed from rams to sheep, and from there to unsavory jokes....

Remember: Kitty has claws Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm reading people comparing christianity to Egypt... The "bible" as it existed before forgery, translation, etc may have been a little similar. Even so, I think the only "similarities" that do exist, could come from the fact that Egypt probably greatly influenced christianity. I've read different places that, for example, the 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, etc. could be parables for the signs of the zodiac. Also that Tutankhamun was very similar to Jesus Christ (jesus being an archer, a.k.a sagitarius would look extremely similar to Tut who was often depicted hunting game.)


Again I will point out that if you look at the basis of the religions.
Stop seeing the surface of the religion, the multiple gods, the animal headed gods, and pagan surface of the religion.

At the core, again I will say they worship one creator, who has no form, no face and no name.

God is the I Am. no face, no form, eternal, and endless cannot be defined.

If you want to compare a figure in Egyptian History to Jesus I suggest that you look to Osiris. Osiris sprang from this almight un nameable creator, and lived and walked amoung his people as did all of the Gods. He was destroyed (crudified?), cut into many peices. Then Isis gathered the parts of his body, bound them together and so he conquered death.

Jesus, was also from the creator, his son born of a virgin. He walked on earth, among the people, died and rose agaain. And so he too conquered death.

Look at the declration of innocence.

Quote:
The Declaration of Innocence-Chapter 125
Introduction

What should be said when arriving at the Hall of Justice, of Two Truths, purging N [the deceased] of all the forbidden things he has done, and seeing the faces of all the Gods.

Spell for descending to the broad hall of Two Truths:

N shall say:

Hail to you, great God, Lord of Justice! I have come to you, my lord, that you may bring me so that I may see your beauty, for I know you and I know your name, and I know the names of the forty-two gods of those who are with you in this Hall of Justice, who live on those who cherish evil and who gulp down their blood on that day of the reckoning of characters in the presence of Wennefer. Behold the double son of the Songstresses; Lord of Truth is your name. Behold I have come to you, I have brought you truth, I have repelled falsehood for you.

I have not done falsehood against men, I have not impoverished my associates, I have done no wrong in the Place of Truth, I have not learnt that which is not, I have done no evil, I have not daily made labor in excess of what was to be done for me, my name has not reached the offices of those who control slaves, I have not deprived the orphan of his property, I have not done what the gods detest, I have not slandered a servant to his master, I have not caused pain, I have not made hungry, I have not made to weep, I have not killed, I have not turned anyone over to a killer, I have not caused anyone’s suffering, I have not diminished the food-offerings in the temples, I have not debased the offering cakes of the gods.

I have not taken the cakes of the blessed, I have not copulated illicitly, I have not been unchaste, I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm, I have not encroached upon fields, I have not added to the balance weights, I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance. I have not taken milk from a child’s mouth, I have not driven small cattle from their herbage, I have not snared birds for the gods’ harpoon barbs, I have not caught fish of their lagoons, I have not stopped the flow f water in its seasons. I have not built a dam against flowing water, I have not quenched a fire in its time. I have not failed to observe the days for haunches of meat. I have not kept cattle away from the God’s property, I have not blocked the God at his processions.

I am Pure. I am pure. I am pure. I am pure. My purity is the purity of this great Phoenix that is in Heracleopolis, because I am indeed the nose of the Lord of Wind who made all men live on that day of completing the Sacred Eye in Heliopolis in the 2nd month of winter last day, in the presence of the lord of this land. I am he who saw the completion of the Sacred Eye in Heliopolis, and nothing evil shall come into being against me in this land in this Hall of Justice, because I know the names of these gods who are in it.



It can be summed up in, I haven't been a shmuck, I haven't deliberatly harmed others, slept with those I was not supposed too, and havent' interfered with the Gods will.

Almost all religions when you take away their trappings are at the core very similar.
Look through the various cultures, histories and religions. Most have some or all of the following.
Belief in spirits of the dead.
A God who is destroyed and then returns to conquer death.
A creation story.
A flood story.
Good spirits (gods, gudes, angels, or saints) that watch over their people and protect them.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I turned this into "my god is bigger than yours".
If u were a guy we could at least solve this by starting to compare size.
Would have a quicker outcome. Confused
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