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Sethi I

 
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Segereh
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:32 pm    Post subject: Sethi I Reply with quote

I thought it was a little strange not having a topic on this pharaoh yet.
He surely is one of my 'favorites' if u will, and I think I'm not the only one thinking like that.

Here are some facts:
He was the son of Ramesses I by Sitre. After a short co-regency with his father, he came to rule the Two Lands and was soon forced to undertake a series of war campaigns in Asia and Libya. He fought wars with the Hittites, conquered the land of Amurru and even the city of Kadesh (again). In his 8th regnal year he made a war expedition to the land of "Jam" (?) in Sudan. Historic records of his warlike deeds add splendor to walls of many Egyptian temples. He erected a magnificent temple at Abydos and a number of buildings and structures all over Egypt, among others the great hypostyle of the temple of Karnak, mortuary temples in Western Thebes and Memphis. He erected a temple of Amon at Napata in Nubia (as well as in other cities). Many temples, apparently left to ruin during the Amarna period, were restored and covered with new reliefs and polychrome. He started building on the new capital of the Ramessides in the Nile-Delta, close to his original family-home. The burial place of the ruler became the finely decorated tomb KV17 in the Kings Valley, one of the greatest found there. The kings mummy was found in the Deir el-Bahari cache DB320 and is to me the best example of Egyptian mummification as an art.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like he's just sleeping...


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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be irritating, here are his transscripted titles:

Quote:
Hr kA-nxt (iri.n-ra , wAH-nsyt , wr-nsyt , wsr-kAw , aA-xpS , aA-Sfit mri-ra , m iti-mnTw , mri-ra , mri.n-imn , nti-ra , ra-mri-mAat , Htp-Hr-mAat , xai-m-HDt mri-ra , xai-m-wAst sanx-tAwi , xai-xaw , xai-m-HDt nfr-Hr Ssp.n.f-nt , sA-imn , sA-itm , sA-wsiri , sA-xpri , sanx-tAwi , sxai-xaw , sxpr-tAwi , stp.n-imn , qAi-HDt mri-ra , tit-imn , tit-ra-itm , dr-HAswt-m-nxtw.f)

wHm-mswt sxm-xpS dr-pDt-A , sxm-hpS dr-pDt-A , mn-mnw-m-Hwt-aAt-mAat , mn-mnw-Dt-nHH , waf-xAswt dr-mnTiw , mbTw--n-tA mk-kmt

wHm-xaw wsr-pDwt-m-tAw-nbw , wsr-pDwt-m-tAw-nbw , Ax-n-itw sqAi-pr.sn , sHtp-m-ra mrr-itw.f , sxm-nsw-nTri iri.n-xpri , mri.n-ra saA-kA.f , nfr-rnpwt sanx-tAwi

mn-mAat-ra (tit-ra , mri.n-ra , HqA-mAat , HqA-iwnw , HqA-wAst , HqAtAwi , wAH-xaw , stp.n-ra , iri.n-ra , iwa(.n-)ra)

sTXy , (mri.n-ptH , mri.n-imn) , wsiri sty , (mri.n-ptH)


Men-Maat-Re (Eternal Is The Justice Of Re)
Seti (He Of Seth)
Meri-en-Ptah (Beloved Of Ptah)
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I started this thread for a reason (now all fall down shocked and appalled, guys waving with hankerchiefs in front of the faces of their passed out girlfriends, tears are shed, silent curses made, all are making a pretty big scene, quite dramatical). I wanted to ask something about Sethi's length of reign and the tombe he made for himself in the Valley.

These are the years, accorded to the reign of Sethi I:

1314-1304 (Redford)
1308-1294 (Gardiner)
1306-1290 (Arnold)
1296-1279 (Dodson)
1294-1279 (British Museum, Grimal, Málek)
1290-1279 (Helck)
1290-1279/8 (von Beckerath)

Now it seems obvious how no-one ever gives him more than 17 years of reign, right? Except for Arnold (16 years) and Dodson (17 years), most scholars seem to give Sethi I 10 to 15 years on the throne of Egypt. Now he is known to have built the grave (KV17) that is regarded as "representing the fullest development of a royal tomb in New Kingdom". It is also the longest, deepest and most completely finished of all the tombs in the Valley. It's thoroughly covered with numerous decorations, polychrome and detailed. In the funerary chamber Belzoni found an anthropoid calcite sarcophagus and fragments of a canopic chest, now in the Soane Museum in London.

Now I wonder, having built such a magnificent grave, given only a reign of between 10 and 15 years, having fought several wars, still defending the creation of a fairly new dynasty (though Horemheb's efforts probably soothed this), where the hell did he get the time to do this?

Tut, living in one of Egypt's richest days, ruled for ten years and eventually got buried in a left-over so to say. Ramses II reigned for about 5 times the years of his father, but left a nowhere as grand grave as Sethi I's. There are numerous examples of longer, equally lasting and shorter reigns, resulting all in more feeble attempts to a dashing tomb.

How come?
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TMP wrote:
This long and elaborately decorated tomb is appropriate for a pharaoh as important as Sety I. This is the first tomb to be completely decorated in all corridors and nearly all chambers, from the entry to the side chambers off the burial chamber. Some decorative themes appear here for the first time. There is a long and still partly unexplored corridor extending many meters into the bedrock beyond the burial chamber. The tomb was discovered in 1817 by Giovanni Belzoni and news of the find generated as much excitement in Europe as the discovery of Tutankhamen's tomb did a century later. Attempts to copy reliefs on the wall and the wholesale removal of reliefs to museums in Europe did serious damage to the walls, and our only record in some cases is historical paintings that were made by early visitors.



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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the prpoblems finishing Ramses I's tomb had anything to do with it? They had to scramble to get an acceptable tomb for him.
Something they call the wellroom was turned into the burial chamber. This burial chamber was decorated, but was all painted (no reliefs). Even his sarcophagus was painted in a yellowish color instead of carved.

Ramses's coffins from his vizier period were nicer (IMHO) than what was in the tomb.

I read somewhere that Egypt did well during Sety's reign. Money was flowing into the state coffers, no major military problems (those are expensive and take a lot of resources). There were some military excursion (Nubia seemed to be the favorite target.)

The tomb in the King's Valley, not to mention the temple at Abydos (including a temple dedicated to his father) likely point to a longer time period. Only 11 years seems short to accomplish all that. I don't think a large part of the building could be attributed to his son either.

Thutmosis IV reigned for some 10 years and did not leave us anywhere near the same amount of monuments (to my knowledge).

He was not that young when he came to the throne either, right? He may have felt time pressing and just started off on a large scale. Then if you manage to survive some 15 years (say) you can do quite a bit I bet. Specially since he seems to have had the resources for it.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's true, but I find it hard to believe kings like Tutanchamon and Thutmose IV weren't ruling over a wealthy, prospering country. Even when the dynasty was a bit unstable under Tut, the country seems not to have been.

But I think the age is indeed a factor of the greatest importance. There didn't seem to be a need for 'rushing things' during Tut's and Thut's reigns, since they both were young in ascending the throne. How could they know they would die young as well...

It strikes me how Sethi' enthousiasm and energetic nature appears to have been passed down to his son Ramses. Hot blood runs through those veins. Smile
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, a very crafty piece of work, the original sarcophagus of Paramessu.



To continue on the age-thing... Sethi I was probably born at the end of Aye's reign, maybe the beginning of that of Horemheb. The grandfather of Sethi - with the same name - was an officer of charrioteers. He lived for sure under the reigns of Achenaten and Tutankhamen. This all would make Sethi as old as the combined reigns of Horemheb and his father Ramses I, making up for some 20 to 30 years? Younger than I thought.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't leave it... Yet another picture, my favorite one and the first one of this depiction I found on the net to 'strike' me again.



This thread made me think of a subject, we adressed elsewhere.
About that supposed elder brother to Ramses II: there's a prince, illustrated at the northern wall of the Hypostyle room of the temple to Amen in Karnak, who could be called Neb-en-khaset-neb, a name not to be found anywhere else. The text on the wall introduces at the time of the triumphal return of Sethi I, his father, from the country of Tjehenu (Syria) a prince who precedes the king. The text goes:



With the last half readable signs often given as:



So, even with the damaged text we get a royal prince X-khaset-neb.
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Maatkare
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out my reconstruction of the face of your "buddy", Segereh.

http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/Setdrawing.html


Seti I was judged to be around fifty at the time of his death and possibly older. I recognize his handsome profile as a young officer in the commonor tomb of Horemheb and also on another anonymous relief. When I find the URL where I once posted these, I will give it. I feel sure that he was born earlier than the time of Aye. He may even be the Egyptian officer "Shuta", mentioned in the Amarna correspondence. His father, Ramesses I served as northern vizier as early as the reign of Tutankhamun because the young pharaoh's features are on his stone sarcophagus, as was the custom. I think Seti I can have finished his tomb in the 11-12 years allotted to him. Other large tombs in the VOK were finished in about the same amount of time. Indeed, the name of Seti was pronounced "Suta". We know this because a pun was made when he was styled "Star of the Land" (Sou Ta) on a monument.[/img]
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