
Click on the logo to visit the shop |
Egyptian Dreams Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
|
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: Cats and pointy ears or not in Ancient Egypt |
|
|
That first attempt to start this thread obviously failed, retry:
Recently I posted this image of a (Ptolematic) Statue of Bastet:
, which opened a discussion on the rounded ears of the cat, and the request for a separate thread was posted, so... here it is!
Later I posted this one to reply the rendered golden computer image:
Let's have this one in stead (this is the Gayer-Anderson Cat; Made out of bronze, from the Late Period about 664-332 BC. It is a representation of the cat-goddess Bastet. The cat wears jewellery and a protective wedjat amulet. A winged scarab appears on the chest and head. This sculpture is now known as the Gayer-Anderson cat, after its donor to The British Museum, where it still resides):
@ Ranoferhotep Even though this is a real cat, please note the rounded ears, but doesn't she look proud, a real goddess? Was it fashionable or admiration to give a Bastet statue golden earrings?
Richard, aka _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ranoferhotep Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 1197 Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I guess this will take us some time to get out, whether cats had rounded or pointy ears. I found these originals, also late period which are well known depictions of Bastet.
 _________________
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ranoferhotep wrote: | I guess this will take us some time to get out, whether cats had rounded or pointy ears. I found these originals, also late period which are well known depictions of Bastet.
 |
Hello Ranoferhotep,
I must admit that while looking for yet another cat that most of the statues have real pointed ears. The Gayer-Anderson cat though seems to have been repair quite extensively, as told on this page:
Examination of the Gayer-Anderson cat
From the X Ray (see below) I read that its ears were less pointy than they are today, but that is open for discussion.
The X Ray:
Richard, aka _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ranoferhotep Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 1197 Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello Toth, I guess you stumbled on a special statue. It is hard to tell whether the statue is damaged. Meanwhile I found another late period example, the tips of the ears are also rounded, but I guess this is more because these statues were probably made in large quantities reusing the same malls to cast them.
 _________________
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Robson Vizier


Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1007 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I simply adore the Louvre's cats
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Robson wrote: | I simply adore the Louvre's cats
 |
Ah Ranoferhotep's is the famous "Bastet with kittens" one,
In your image the kittens clearly have grown up.
Ranoferhotep in the X Ray you can see how serious the damage was (the flank, the ears), also a cast made 300 BC still is an ancient statue to me, wouldn't you agree? I like all of these statues, BTW
Richard, aka _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ranoferhotep Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 1197 Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A cast 300 BC may be called an ancient one. It is a very interesting article about the Gayer-Anderson cat. _________________
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ranoferhotep wrote: | A cast 300 BC may be called an ancient one. It is a very interesting article about the Gayer-Anderson cat. |
I agree on both accounts, Ranoferhotep, here is a more descriptive page about the statue, without the X Ray:
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aes/b/bronze_figure_of_a_seated_cat.aspx
I you look to the right of the close-up photo, you will find two arrows which give you access to different "cat related" items, including the statue in bronze of Bastet and a full litter of her kittens
Richard _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Calypsos Citizen


Joined: 03 Jan 2011 Posts: 56
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Cats and pointy ears or not in Ancient Egypt |
|
|
Toth wrote: | That first attempt to start this thread obviously failed, retry:
Recently I posted this image of a (Ptolematic) Statue of Bastet:
, which opened a discussion on the rounded ears of the cat, and the request for a separate thread was posted, so... here it is!
Later I posted this one to reply the rendered golden computer image:
Let's have this one in stead (this is the Gayer-Anderson Cat; Made out of bronze, from the Late Period about 664-332 BC. It is a representation of the cat-goddess Bastet. The cat wears jewellery and a protective wedjat amulet. A winged scarab appears on the chest and head. This sculpture is now known as the Gayer-Anderson cat, after its donor to The British Museum, where it still resides):
@ Ranoferhotep Even though this is a real cat, please note the rounded ears, but doesn't she look proud, a real goddess? Was it fashionable or admiration to give a Bastet statue golden earrings?
Richard, aka |
Are you sure this was a cat statue and not that of a baby lion or other wild cat. _________________ رأس الحية |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ranoferhotep Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 1197 Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think we all can agree that this is definitely a cast representing a cat. Lion’s, even baby lions, though they belong to the same family, have quite a different build, and are represented in A.E. art also accordingly. _________________
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ranoferhotep wrote: | I think we all can agree that this is definitely a cast representing a cat. Lion’s, even baby lions, though they belong to the same family, have quite a different build, and are represented in A.E. art also accordingly. |
So the thought is now that all (and I have seen several since my initial post) cats with rounded ears are baby lions? But if one of our members has a cat like that I hope he, or she, is willing to post a photo of the living animal.
Richard, aka _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Daughter_Of_SETI Divine Adoratrice

Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 2563 Location: Hull, UK
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Toth wrote: | Was it fashionable or admiration to give a Bastet statue golden earrings? |
The earrings in the Gayer-Anderson Cat aren't the originals, but I believe the cats representing Bastet are adorned with earrings due to the fact that gods and goddesses were shown in jewellery, so it could simply be a mark of status.
I hadn't really considered the rounded v's pointed ears, as I just assume they are depicting different breeds of cat. All the ancient Egyptian depictions of cats that I have are of cats with rounded ears, except the one depicted on the ostraca. See here: http://djeserkara-felines.blogspot.com _________________
In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this - Terry Pratchett. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Daughter_Of_SETI wrote: | Toth wrote: | Was it fashionable or admiration to give a Bastet statue golden earrings? |
The earrings in the Gayer-Anderson Cat aren't the originals, but I believe the cats representing Bastet are adorned with earrings due to the fact that gods and goddesses were shown in jewellery, so it could simply be a mark of status. |
You could be right about that, I have seen it more, on other depictions of Bastet
Daughter_Of_SETI wrote: | I hadn't really considered the rounded v's pointed ears, as I just assume they are depicting different breeds of cat. All the ancient Egyptian depictions of cats that I have are of cats with rounded ears, except the one depicted on the ostraca. See here: http://djeserkara-felines.blogspot.com |
You can say whatever you want, but Qetesh has also a tendency to rounder ears, at least on that photo; really pointed ears cats are the Siamese ones... I think
Richard, aka _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Daughter_Of_SETI Divine Adoratrice

Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 2563 Location: Hull, UK
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I believe the cats around in Ancient Egyptian times were the felis chaus (Jungle Cat): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FelisChausMunsiari1.jpg felis silvestris lybica (African Wildcat): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AfricanWildCat.jpg and felis serval (Serval): http://www.wild-about-you.com/Images/galleryServal1L.jpg
These all seem to have rounded ears, like their modern decendants; Chausie, Abyssinian, Egyptian Mau, Savannah, Serengeti, etc. It makes me wonder if the pointed representation is an artistic way of showing the flared ears? Cats always seem to have a more "wild" look when they point or twist their ears...maybe they're showing a more "dominant" side to the cat?? This could especially be the case in drawn/painted depictions, but maybe not so much in sculpted versions, as they would have to show a twist to the ears, too?? _________________
In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this - Terry Pratchett. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Toth Account Suspended
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1781 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Daughter_Of_SETI wrote: | I believe the cats around in Ancient Egyptian times were the felis chaus (Jungle Cat): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FelisChausMunsiari1.jpg felis silvestris lybica (African Wildcat): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AfricanWildCat.jpg and felis serval (Serval): http://www.wild-about-you.com/Images/galleryServal1L.jpg
These all seem to have rounded ears, like their modern decendants; Chausie, Abyssinian, Egyptian Mau, Savannah, Serengeti, etc. It makes me wonder if the pointed representation is an artistic way of showing the flared ears? Cats always seem to have a more "wild" look when they point or twist their ears...maybe they're showing a more "dominant" side to the cat?? This could especially be the case in drawn/painted depictions, but maybe not so much in sculpted versions, as they would have to show a twist to the ears, too?? |
As for the African Wild cat: I know his nephew, he lives (much more polished) here in the street, so would those be the ancestors of our Orange tabby cats, they could have migrated over to our regions through Ancient Egypt...? Cats have a more "wild look" at least to me when they put their ears flat (usually they show their teeth too then)
Richard, aka _________________ [img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i] |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|