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Critical of Hawass?
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Toth
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Granite wrote:
Posts on the EEF site this morning are much more positive. Although numerous items across the country have evidently been looted or destroyed, things are not as bad as first reports suggested.
There are, though, a few questions to be asked of the newly-appointed Egyptian minister of antiquities:
Why were all police, including tourist officers, withdrawn on Friday?
Why were known thugs released from jail, as had been done before during periods of civil unrest?
Why were the Egyptian Museum looters' faces apparently covered when they were filmed by the foreign press?
Why did several looters, when arrested, turn out to be policemen?
Above all, why was so little done to protect Egypt's much-vaunted historical treasures?
Those of us who have lived under dictatorships tend to think the worst in situations like this...


Hello Granite,

I see a lot of justified questions, but what were the answers of this new miniter (Hawass Question Question Question Smile (I have to be careful in my "smilie use", Hawass might be crazy enough to demand the return of the Pharaoh smilies as well Laughing ) I am looking forward to see (at least some) answers to the questions you posted in your last post!

Richard, aka


Megan Strong reports in her blog the following:

Dr Zahi Hawass was appointed Minister of Antiquities

Yesterday, Dr. Zahi Hawass was appointed as the Minister of Antiquities, a newly created department that will be charged with the care and protection of all Egyptian monuments and museums. This department will absorb the Supreme Council of Antiquities, and Dr. Zahi will continue excavating, writing books, and representing his country.

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Kharis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that most people seem to dislike Dr Hawass deeply, but I for one am glad that he has been given responsibility for Antiquities, although it is not clear for how long he will hold that position, given the uncertainty.

Whatever one might think about his personal self-advertisement, he is at least a properly trained archaeologist and therefore best qualified to run the department, rather than a person parachuted in to bolster political support.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
Not only in the Museum, Granite.
We are getting mixed reports.
According to HRH ZH, everything is o.k. (more or less) with no unrepairable damage to any objects.
According to osirisnet this morning, there is extrensive damage at Saqqerah, total distruction of the tomb of Maya, wet-nurse of Tutankhamen, and pillaging, looting and further damage at many other sites--which HRH ZH denies.
I'm not sure if we'll ever learn the actual extent of damage done.
Thankfully, the earlier report of the mummies of Tuya and Yuya was wrong; they seem to have survived.

According to my information it is now HE (His Excellency), the HRH may be the next step, then they deify him and he is mummiefied and buried inside the new Museum (end of fantasy) Laughing

Richard, aka
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Toth
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granite wrote:
According to reliable sources quoted on EEF, one of the damaged mummies was in a research laboratory in the museum, and the bones seen alongside it in the photo had nothing to do with it; the other one was poorly preserved - it had white spots of fungi on it - and was probably stored out of sight. It seems strange that the looters should have targeted two of the most inaccessible mummies in the place. Are we, after all, dealing with a sham, a put-up job? It wouldn't be the first in ZH's glorious career...


Parafrasing a (not welcome here) US sitcom: "Hawass does whatever is best for Hawass!"

Richard, aka
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Granite wrote:
According to reliable sources quoted on EEF, one of the damaged mummies was in a research laboratory in the museum, and the bones seen alongside it in the photo had nothing to do with it; the other one was poorly preserved - it had white spots of fungi on it - and was probably stored out of sight. It seems strange that the looters should have targeted two of the most inaccessible mummies in the place. Are we, after all, dealing with a sham, a put-up job? It wouldn't be the first in ZH's glorious career...


Parafrasing a (not welcome here) US sitcom: "Hawass does whatever is best for Hawass!"

Richard, aka


I think that concludes to us all, we do whatever it takes to survive. Hawass has no option, and he tries to save whatever possible.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you have to admire him Wink he even built storage facilities himself notworthy But I question at least one thing from his site (advertizing his usual egocentric attitude ala Akhenaten): H.E. writes " This reporter also claimed that a wooden boat, over 4,000 years old, housed in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo, was damaged, this is also untrue.

Well, if this is untrue, then perhaps he would be kind enough to explain this:


Source "eloquent peasant.com"

But let me turn this around, Even though it is "just" a model boat, it is an old wooden boat, so that reporter was right and the Al Jazeera images show clearly that it has been damaged, so if this is a HawAss lie, then what else is??? The damaged King Tut statues, being originals; the "unidentified mummies" still being unidentified. Summa summarum: I start to question every word from Mr. HawAss; after all he is a politician now, and how do you know when a politician is lying? They open their mouth!

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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we cut down on the conspiracy theory nonsense please. Creating all kinds of silly scenarios with ZH in the role of the evil overlord? Puhlease.

It is clear that the situation is confusing. There are a lot of wild rumors that started about looting and inflicted damage. I'm sure getting all the facts must be a challenge. And there are clearly many false reports about.

As a moderator I would like to remind all that this is not some conspiracy theory board: * please stick to the facts *

The situation is confusing enough without us making up stories.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Anneke for a very welcome dose of common sense.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Can we cut down on the conspiracy theory nonsense please. Creating all kinds of silly scenarios with ZH in the role of the evil overlord? Puhlease.

It is clear that the situation is confusing. There are a lot of wild rumors that started about looting and inflicted damage. I'm sure getting all the facts must be a challenge. And there are clearly many false reports about.

As a moderator I would like to remind all that this is not some conspiracy theory board: * please stick to the facts *

The situation is confusing enough without us making up stories.


Yes, we can! Could we - in turn - ask for some serious information from His Excellency , the Minister of Antiquities, Dr. Zahi Hawass? Anneke, I am cureently watching the 5 DVD box "treasures of Egypt", besides giving some information, it is more the ZH show, and polease excuse me if I (we) react to that, I - for myself - always imagined archeology is a serious science, not one "one-man's-show (and not something like Indiana Jones Wink . And talking about the conspiracy part (That is why I embedded the image of the damaged boat at the EM, for reference and proof) what would you call it if someone systematically denies damage, while it so easy can be proven? Stick to the facts, Anneke? I think I just brought up a fact, just like Al Jazeera did. Just as Dr. Hawass is asking questions, so am I

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my directions are fairly straight forward:
Stick to the facts

Keep the rhetoric under control. Asking questions is fine. Making wild accusations is not. I expect discussions here at ED to be handled in a fair, informed and reasonable fashion.

Having everything deteriorate in a diatribe against Hawass is really getting old Richard. It really does not add much to the discussion. If there are genuine questions then ask. But stop the derogatory tone of these posts.

And that is a direction from me as a moderator and not up for discussion.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I think my directions are fairly straight forward:
Stick to the facts

Keep the rhetoric under control. Asking questions is fine. Making wild accusations is not. I expect discussions here at ED to be handled in a fair, informed and reasonable fashion.

Having everything deteriorate in a diatribe against Hawass is really getting old Richard. It really does not add much to the discussion. If there are genuine questions then ask. But stop the derogatory tone of these posts.

And that is a direction from me as a moderator and not up for discussion.


You may lock my account after this, but I hope you have the decency to let this post stay, as it will be - most likely the reason for me to be locked out -

OK, genuine question 1: How is it possible that someone (whoever) denies the existence of damage to a boat, while it is so easy to produce genuine photo evidence that - be it a model - boat was damaged during the looting raid on the EM?

Genuine question 2: How serious is an archaeologist to be taken when - all over sudden - he makes politicat statements (check http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 the 1027 entry is particular interesting; how serious is this man who obviously is afraid of loosing his new job?

Excuse me for taking the liberty to speak out freely, but isn't that what is so highly valued in the USA? And you may have noticed that my thought about ZH are shared with other people here.

For the last time,

Richard, aka
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is no conspiracy theory, Anneke, but sheer indignation amongst people like Richard, myself and many others on this and other forums, sincere lovers of Egypt and its fascinating culture, at Hawass's constant and provable unprofessional behaviour over the years, which constitutes a real obstacle to the progress of Egyptology. Ask any serious Egyptologist.
It is a fact that Hawass lied over the boat in the photo, as he has lied about so many other things in the past. He no longer merits our trust. If we can't say that here, then the forum is just a waste of time.
l.p.h.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke, I also have doubts about certain reports that are circulating on the net. I hope peace comes back really soon to Egypt and its people, and that the ancient artifacts and sites keep safe. I canít speak for other members, but I also do have the idea Hawass is at least minimalizing certain things.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Anneke, I also have doubts about certain reports that are circulating on the net. I hope peace comes back really soon to Egypt and its people, and that the ancient artifacts and sites keep safe. I canít speak for other members, but I also do have the idea Hawass is at least minimalizing certain things.


I actually tried to find out on the internet what is known and what is not. Talk about confusing!

One of the best summaries I have found is here:
http://www.saqqara.nl/news

From what I have read I would not be surprised in the least if it is hard for even Hawass to get straight answers.


Granite wrote:
It is a fact that Hawass lied over the boat in the photo, as he has lied about so many other things in the past. He no longer merits our trust. If we can't say that here, then the forum is just a waste of time.

Please reread my post. I did not say that there is no room for criticism and questions. As a matter of fact I stated several times that that is appropriate. It is the derogatory tone and comments that I have a problem with.

And if Richard chooses to leave, I wish him well.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke is right about this because
1. no one can know the truth yet about every sight/object damaged
2. Yes Hawass has little credibility lately
3. item 2 has been repeated alot
4. Hawass is not to blame for everything said, rumored, shown, speculated on, and just pain lied about.
5. lets hope for the best but expect the worse, the truth will probably be in the middle
6. Most important, everyone step away from the keyboards, take a deep breath, count to 10 and return to normal please

Toth, I hope you stay, your a very intelligent, informative person, and I would hate to see you leave
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