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KV 21 and mummies KV21A and B
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Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1231
Location: victoria, australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they wanted to test ahmose nefertari's dna against hatshepsut. as far as i know, they tested 'thutmose I' and thutmose II, as well as the mummy found with hatshepsut and assumed to be her wet nurse sitre in. they never released the results, and i assume either the testing was not successful, or the results were not what hawass wanted to see.

as far as i know, the only evidence for kv21 mummies being royal in the sense of queens is the arm positions. the mummification techniques prove the mummies are from the later 18th dynasty, and the dna proves they are of the 18th dynasty royal house. i have always seen them referred to as queens of the 18th dynasty, but i have never seen them before the dna testing associated with tutankhamun. it makes me wonder if they were randomly tested, or if hawass suspected they were relatives of tut.
heaven won't take me.......hell's afraid i'll take over.....
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Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumours have it that the KV21 mummies were included in the testing because testing of mitochondrial DNA which was carried out earlier showed that they shared the same mtDNA with the known female royal mummies.
But no results of mtDNA testing have been published in the JAMA paper or later.
On the other hand, anyone who has seen the Discovery Channel TV-show knows that in this programme they clearly state that they have tested mtDNA and found out that the YL and Tut share the same.

Murky waters if you ask me.
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some "basics" for KV 21 from Elizabeth Thomas : The Royal Necropoleis of Thebes. - Princeton, 1966. - Page 139 :

"... KV 21 was discovered by Belzoni on October 9, 1817 :

We perceived some marks of another tomb in an excavation, that had been begun three days before, precisely in the same direction as the first tomb [KV 19], and not a hundred yards from it. In fact, I had the pleasure to see this second tomb on the same day, the 9th. This is more extensive, but entirely new and without a single painting in it . . . We perceived at the end of the first passage a brick wall, which stopped the entrance, and had been forced through. After passing this brick wall you descend a staircase, and proceed through another corridor, at the end of which is the entrance to a pretty large chamber, with a single pillar in the centre, and not plastered in any part. At one corner of this chamber we found two mummies on the ground quite naked, without cloth or case. They were females, and their hair pretty long, and well preserved ... At one side of this room is a small door, leading into a small chamber, in which we found the fragments of several earthen vessels, and also pieces of vases of alabaster, but so decayed that we could not join one to another. On the top of the staircase we found an earthen jar quite perfect, with a few hieroglyphics on it, and large enough to contain two buckets of water. This tomb is a hundred feet from the entrance to the end of the chamber, twenty feet deep, and twenty-three wide. The smaller chamber is ten feet square.

Lane confirms the mound of debris outside the entrance on Belzoni's plan, the form of the tomb, and the mummies. "Many" jar fragments were in the small room, and the tomb orientation is due east-west. Burton calls it "a clean new tomb, the water not having got into it" ; the two mummies were "nearly whole - females - some hair on the heads - distorted hand and foot - mummies in small chamber - vases - entrails stopt with earth - large - common red pottery all broken."

Apparently just accessible to Lefebure, the tomb is now closed. The plan (Fig. 14) is drawn principally from the measurements on Burton's plan and section ; Belzoni's perspective has been consulted over all and for the room level. Neither speaks of the short outer stairway, evidently filled, that must form the entrance I estimate.

The tomb in general is thus more or less like KV 60, 33, 37, 46, 55, 49, all of Dyn. 18 and of which 21 is largest. It also differs in several regards : the Hall E niches, pillar, and storeroom, the latter occurring otherwise in the group only in 55. In spite of appearances in the Belzoni sketch, Burton seems to place the C recesses at floor level, as in 46 and 49.

In E the pillar and storeroom appear natural for a hall of its size, but the two long niches, each about 56 cm. deep and 92 cm. high, are analagous only to the improbable niche in 27 and perhaps to those behind the sarcophagus hall of Ramses IV and possibly Ramses III. Since they appear to be later rather than earlier, they may be intrusive in 21. Reexamination, with exact measurements, could prove useful.

Presumably the mummies and objects remain in the tomb. The large pot may be BW ("big whitened") in type, thought these are not usually inscribed. The form could perhaps be dated approximately, if the hieroglyphs are not revealing. The "clean" tomb was evidently not open very long and the two women may be the original occupants. By analogy with 60, perhaps they are two other nurses of Hatshepsut - if the tomb was not reused. Their date of embalming could probably be established. ..."

Greetings, Lutz.
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