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What GOOD came out of the Amarna Period?
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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Armana period gave an opportunity for professional Egyptologists and Egyptophiles alike to make elaborate and imaginative interpretations of the contradictory and incomplete evidence available and vigorously and passionately defend these interpretations in scholarly articles, documentaries, scholarly and popular books and of course electronic forums.

Let's face it. If Akhenaton and his family were to disappear from the pages of history Egyptology would be much more boring. Wink
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dkessler
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylejustin wrote:
smenhkare atm, is most likely kv 55, a son of amenhotep III by queen tiye, and therfore brother of akhenaten, and probably tutankhamuns father.


KV55 is Akhenaten the son of Amenhotep and Queen Tiye and definitely Tutankhamen's father.
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Styler78
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkessler wrote:
kylejustin wrote:
smenhkare atm, is most likely kv 55, a son of amenhotep III by queen tiye, and therfore brother of akhenaten, and probably tutankhamuns father.


KV55 is Akhenaten the son of Amenhotep and Queen Tiye and definitely Tutankhamen's father.


I don't wish to be rude- but can we all keep on track with the post subject.

Feel free to add a new topic elsewhere though.

Thanks
Stuart
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dkessler
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
I don't wish to be rude- but can we all keep on track with the post subject.


You're right. I apologize for the digression. I guess the main good that came out of the Amarna period - at least good to the modern world - is it's capacity to stimulate such debate. But of course debate requires at least one point of view, even if one of those POVs is that of Zahi Hawass, which appears so unpopular in this forum.
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dkessler
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkessler wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
I don't wish to be rude- but can we all keep on track with the post subject.


You're right. I apologize for the digression. I guess the main good that came out of the Amarna period - at least good to the modern world - is it's capacity to stimulate such debate. But of course debate requires at least one point of view, even if one of those POVs is that of Zahi Hawass, which appears so unpopular in this forum.


Sorry, I clicked "send" too quickly. I meant "more than one point of view."

I would call it Freudian, but I guess i shouldn't mention Freud in a discussion about the Amarna period LOL.
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Styler78
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkessler wrote:
dkessler wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
I don't wish to be rude- but can we all keep on track with the post subject.


You're right. I apologize for the digression. I guess the main good that came out of the Amarna period - at least good to the modern world - is it's capacity to stimulate such debate. But of course debate requires at least one point of view, even if one of those POVs is that of Zahi Hawass, which appears so unpopular in this forum.


Sorry, I clicked "send" too quickly. I meant "more than one point of view."

I would call it Freudian, but I guess i shouldn't mention Freud in a discussion about the Amarna period LOL.


Thanks dkessler,

I know very little about the period, so am really seeking to gain information and opinions on the subject matter . I've done similar with the Hyksos and others and i felt it to be very interesting. When we break- away from the subject the post becomes a little less informative. Appreciate the apology.

@ Naunacht - you are completely correct. The Amarna period is responsible for so much Egyptian interest, that some forget people like Amenhotep III- which is crazy!!!!

Can anyone provide any details as to how the army may have changed shortly after the Amarna period. It seems to be an area worth finding out more about?

Stuart
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stephaniep
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Stuart,
The army ran the country under Tut or at least Horemheb made that claim and he was army.

According to wiki:
Horemheb also reformed the Army and reorganized the Deir el-Medinah workforce in his 7th Year . . .

Horemheb handed the country over to Ramesses I, who was army. The army ran the country from then until the priests took over.
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Chrismackint
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps thatís exactly why Ancient Egypt declined.

One could say an overly dominant military presence within a society could also be a bad thing as it might create an imbalance/incompetence in the allowcation of resources and drain the grain supplies available to the general populance and thus create inflation within the economy and thus cause internal instability?

It seems more that ae declined due to internal instability more than any outside forces ability to conquer it.

During the ramessides rule Egypt's Kings were able to defend it against invasions but not the challenge to their power by the priests.

Perhaps the ae were wrong about Akhenaten? Maybe a country unified under one leader who no one could challenge for power and thus create instability is what ae needed to endure into the future?

Personally I donít really understand why the ae viewed the amarna period with such blind hate. It certainly backfired on them because where did there traditional gods and the priests of those gods get them? Lol
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's entertainment value to future generations? Very Happy That and some quite nice art.
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What GOOD came out of the Amarna Period? Reply with quote

dkessler wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
The Amarna period was a turbulent time in Ancient Egypt, but did anything GOOD come from it?


If it had lasted it would. But Horemheb's counter revolution led to the enslavement of "Isrir" (the Israelites, as mentioned later in the Mernepteh Stele. The Amarna experiment was started under the influence of Ay (Efraim) son of Yuya (Joseph). Yuya was a military commander in Syria who persuaded the visiting Thutmose IV that he could use the pretext of a dream to claim the throne from his brother.

Yuya was unable to convince Thutmose IV or Amenhotep III to embrace monitheism, but his son Ay succeeded (partially) with Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten)

The experiment was ultimately ended by Horemheb who "knew not Yuya" and the oppression continued with Mernepteh who killed the male babies of the "Isrir" ("no seed") and led to 200 years of Israelite slavery.

Thenl Amenmesse/Messuwi/Msy led a small band of Isrir slaves to freedom where they teamed up with the Shasu of Yahowa (or Yahowa Da'im - the ones who knew Yahowa).

They got to Petra where they built the snake monument before crossing into Canaan in several waves.


Speaking on behalf of the Jewish People I firmly decline ANY discredit for the Amarna experiment. As has been pointed out many, many times there is NO resemblance between Atenism and Judaism - beyond simple monotheism - and not one good reason to believe there was any link between them.
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobManske wrote:
Oh, no, dkessler.


Also deliberately false are your "identifications" of known Egyptian personnel with biblical characters whose mere existence is not only disputable but for which no verification has ever been received. It shows a complete lack of respect on your part for scholarship and straightforward statements. There is no need to insult people like Ay and Yuya with such identifications. You should be ashamed.


It's not very complimentary to Joseph and Ephraim either given that both Aye and Yuya were active in VERY non-judaic cults.
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylejustin wrote:


im no authority on the bible, but as far as i know there is no evidence for anyone mentioned in it outside the bible itself and other gospels and religious writings intended for the bible that never made it lol.
moses has no historicity, as is big shocker jesus. there is nothing in the historical record for anyone like adam and eve, noah, moses, jesus, solomon or david.


And who, except for Jews and early Christians, would be interested in recording our prophets and heroes? The Old Testament - and even the New - are as much historical documents as statements of faith. Genesis is made up of adaptations of earlier origin stories which were primarily non-historical in nature but the Books become progressively more historical in nature from the Penteuch on. Granted it is history with a distinct bias and strong admixtures of folk myth but a kind of history just the same.

Quote:
now, it is very plausible these people existed once, and maybe they did great things. there is always truth in mythology, and the bible though believed by billions, is nothing more than mythology.


Not entirely. The existence of the ancient state of Israel; of early christians ect. IS corroborated from other sources.
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SidneyF
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Balaam the son of Beor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaam
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SidneyF wrote:
What about Balaam the son of Beor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaam


I guess he is independently attested.
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