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Dr. C. Pusch, German human geneticist to DNA investigations
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Dr. C. Pusch, German human geneticist to DNA investigations Reply with quote

Here an unfortunately not very detailed notice in an article from a German daily paper ...

tagblatt.de ---> Nachrichten ---> Tübingen ---> "Ötzi, der kranke Mann aus dem Eis - Carsten Pusch fand Borreliose und erbliche Arteriosklerose", Uschi Hahn, 29.02.2012:
Quote:
"... Der Humangenetiker, der sich in Tübingen habilitiert hat, machte mit seinen Forschungsergebnissen bereits 2010 Furore, als er maßgeblich an der Entschlüsselung des Erbgutes von Tutanchamun beteiligt war. Der jung gestorbene Star-Pharao war ähnlich wie Ötzi von Erb- und anderen Krankheiten geplagt – was wohl auch am inzestuösen Verhältnis seines Vaters Echnaton mit der eigenen Schwester lag.

Schon damals berichtete Pusch von weiteren Forschungsprojekten an ägyptischen Mumien. Manches davon liegt derzeit – auch wegen der Ägyptischen Revolution – auf Eis, zum Beispiel die Nachforschungen über die so berühmte wie schöne Pharaonen-Gattin Nofretete. Andere Projekte muss Pusch derzeit aus der Ferne begleiten. Und bleibt dank Internet doch ziemlich nah dran: „Wir sind auf Skype angewiesen“, berichtet er von Live-Konferenzen vor der Computerkamera.

Zwei wichtige Projekte stehen kurz vor dem Abschluss. Die Ergebnisse zur Erforschung der Ramses-Dynastie „werden demnächst veröffentlicht“, hofft Pusch. Er will da nicht vorgreifen, aber so viel kann er schon verraten: Die Anatomie, das Erscheinungsbild und die Genetik der Mumien weisen auf einen wahren Abgrund an „politischen Ränkespielen und Mord hin“. Manches davon vermutete man bereits, weil es sich mit Textfragmenten auf gefundenen Papyrusrollen deckt. Doch niemand konnte ahnen, dass die Überlieferung der Wahrheit so nahe kommt. So freut sich Pusch, dass „jetzt ein offenes Kapitel der Geschichte zu Ende geschrieben werden kann“.

Ein anderes Projekt ist die Erforschung des Ursprungs der Pharaonen. Woher kamen sie? Gibt es noch Nachfahren der Herrscher am Nil. Und wenn, wo leben sie heute? Das sind Fragen, deren Beantwortung im heutigen Ägypten politische Auswirkungen haben könnten. Auch deshalb liegt die Veröffentlichung der Forschungsergebnisse derzeit auf Eis. Und Pusch, der sich, wie er sagt, „das Vertrauen der Leute dort erarbeitet“ hat, hüllt sich in Schweigen, solange nicht das Ok aus Ägypten kommt. ..."

Translation with "Systran" :

Quote:
"... The human geneticist, which habilitated itself in Tübingen, made 2010 sensation already with its research results, when he was considerably in the decoding of the genetic make-up involved with Tutanchamun. The star Pharao died young was similarly as Ötzi the Iceman von genetic and other diseases troubled - which was probably because of the inzest relationship of its father Akhenaten with the own sister.

Pusch reported already at that time of further research projects at Egyptian mummies. Some of it lies at present - also because of the Egyptian revolution - on ice, for example the investigations about as famous as beautiful queen Nofretete. Pusch must accompany other projects at present from the distance. And holds on owing to internet nevertheless rather near: „We are dependent on Skype “, report it of live conferences before the computer camera.

Two important projects stand shortly before the conclusion. The results for the study of the Ramses dynasty "are published shortly", hopes Pusch. It does not want to anticipate there, but he can betray so much: The anatomy, the appearance and the genetics of the mummies point to political intrigues and murder to a true abyss on. Some of it assumed one already, because it covers itself with text fragments on found papyrus roles. But nobody could suspect that the excessive quantity of the truth so close comes. Thus Pusch is pleased that „an open chapter of history can be written now in the end “.

Another project is the study of the origin of the pharaos. From where did they come? Are there still descendants of the rulers at the Nile? And if, where they live today? Those are questions, whose answer in today's Egypt could have political effects. Also therefore the publication of the research results lies at present on ice. And Pusch, which itself, as he says, "has compiled the confidence of the people there very hard", wraps itself in silence, as long as the ok does not come from Egypt. ..."


Greetings, Lutz.
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this English translation wonderfully impenetrable, Lutz. Laughing

Is the basic made that Tutankhamen is the son of the mummy in KV55 - that is, Akhenaten? And that he is the offspring of an incestuous brother-sister sexual connecting? Idea
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
I find this English translation wonderfully impenetrable, Lutz. Laughing


That is a fun translation, eh? Still, it's better than a lot of those instructions you see on Japanese products where someone made an attempt to translate everything into English. "The happy monkey spanks twice slotted this piece to fit in joyous amplitude..."

I tried Google Translate and it wasn't much better. Kidding aside, it's an interesting article. I for one am interested in the results of the study of the "Ramses dynasty."

Quote:
Is the basic made that Tutankhamen is the son of the mummy in KV55 - that is, Akhenaten? And that he is the offspring of an incestuous brother-sister sexual connecting? Idea


The DNA analyses conducted 2007-2009 have established the genetic relationship between the KV55 mummy and Tutankhamun: father and son. The same is true of the KV35YL mummy and Tutankhamun: mother and son. And, yes, the same analyses have established that KV55 mummy and KV35YL mummy were full brother-sister.

Personally, however, I am far from convinced about the identification of Akhenaten as the KV55 mummy. I'm not alone, of course. I remember shortly after the publication of the JAMA report and its emphasis of KV55 as Akhenaten, there was an outcry among professionals and enthusiasts alike that this was hardly certain. Subsequently, I remember in a National Geographic article, Hawass backed off the identification and admitted it was only a possibility.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So your issue is not with KV55 and the KV35 mummy are brother and sister, and parents of Tutankhamen, but with the identification of KV55 with Akhenaten? If so, is it generally accepted that they ARE brother and sister and parents of Tutankhamen?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
So your issue is not with KV55 and the KV35 mummy are brother and sister, and parents of Tutankhamen, but with the identification of KV55 with Akhenaten? If so, is it generally accepted that they ARE brother and sister and parents of Tutankhamen?


That's correct, Orwell. According to the findings published in the JAMA report, the mummies designated KV55 and KV35YL were full brother-sister. I don't know of any ongoing dispute regarding that.

The debate continues to be the identity of the KV55 mummy. Some still argue it's Akhenaten but, I believe, most still believe it's Smenkhkare, myself included. That Smenkhkare might have been Tut's father was always a possibility, so there's nothing shocking about that possibility.

The identity of KV35YL is even less well understood. I can't recall all of the particulars of the debate but it's possible she was a daughter of Amunhotep III or even one of AKhenaten's daughters. I can't remember for certain, however. I do recall a lively discussion about the JAMA report here at ED shortly after it was published, so you could probably use the board's Search feature and dig it up.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hint at further information about the Ramessides is quite interesting.
I think the reference to the "murder" etc and the description in the papyrus may refer to the murder(?) of Ramesses III.

I had read some information that the mummy of Ramesses III showed a deep cut in his neck.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Anneke. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I meant thanks kmt_sesh! Very Happy

(But thank you too, anneke! Wink )
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
I find this English translation wonderfully impenetrable, Lutz. Laughing

Feel free to give a better one ... I had the feeling the online translators from "Systran" and "Babel Fish (Yahoo)" are working well.

kmt_sesh wrote:
... it's an interesting article. I for one am interested in the results of the study of the "Ramses dynasty." ...

Because I also thought so and I remind me to have seen askings about the future of the DNA-projects in Cairo here in this forum I posted this rather short info.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
... I had read some information that the mummy of Ramesses III showed a deep cut in his neck.

I form this info. originates from a television broadcast?

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope that whatever they publish will come complete with raw data this time.
They should have learned a lesson from their last much debated publication.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
anneke wrote:
... I had read some information that the mummy of Ramesses III showed a deep cut in his neck.

I form this info. originates from a television broadcast?

Greetings, Lutz.


Now that you mention it, that rings a bell. I think it was a documentary where Zinc and Pusch was said to have uncovered the cut in Ramesses III's neck through a CT scan.

But the very first time I heard about it was from a friend of mine from Belgium. He had heard some of this mentioned at a conference I believe.

I'm always a bit hesitant to believe "documentaries" without seeing something in print. But the original post alludes to work on the Ramesside kings and it does sound like they have done work on the mummy of RIII.

Very Happy Hope they publish something soon.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have back my copy of An X-ray atlas of the royal mummies (Chicago : Univ. of Chicago Press, 1980). Harris and Wente do not mention such injury. The mummy of Ramses III. is described as one of only two (the other is Amenhotep II.), which was not broken in parts by tomb robbers. Also in the radiograph is no reference. Remarkable I find the mummys binding at the neck. Nearly like a scarf.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Remarkable I find the mummys binding at the neck. Nearly like a scarf.


What's the scarf covering up? Idea
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading helps, sometimes ... See Post by Anneke from Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:15 am here in this thread.

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