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Isis Statue
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Hatshepsut13
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Isis Statue Reply with quote

Hi, so I am new to this site, whats up! I love history and reading about it. I have come on this site alot as a guest as my interests and questions about ancient egypt grew. which i have found out was called Kemet. I like a.e. because it represents the first advanced civilization, and I have always like that idea of the first time man made sense of the world and became organized. I also really like the site because it steers away from racism and Afrocentrism.

So to my question. I saw a lot of statues of Isis when i google images of her to see what she was represented like. Alot of these gold statues with her wings spread out came up and the were really beautiful. The were being sold for cheap so obviously they were not the real thing. But my question is, was there a real statue that this one is based off of? or is it just interpretation. I really want to buy one, but not if it isn't modeled on a real statue in a museum or something. anyone know??

p.s. I tried to find a site that showed things like statues or art made by the ancient egyptions but i could not find any good ones. like a gallery or something. anyone know of any good sites to recommend? Thanks!
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

googling specific museums and collections will get you nice collections. buying books helps. i usually buy books if they have dazzling pictures. i only buy books with little or none if the book is on a specific topic.....such as the amarna period lol or cleopatra!
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Hatshepsut13
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK thanks for the idea! Are there any specific museums that have a lot of content? The only museum I have even heard of is the Smithsonian Sad
I will start looking though.

P.S. Any idea about if the statue is based on a real artifact? I think i can upload the picture below, I will try.



or

http://wiki.destonians.com/images/f/f5/Statuewingedisis.jpg

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are many museums with good collections. in egypt, there's cairo, luxor, giza. there are many open air museums too. there's the museum in turin, berlin, the louvre, british museum in london. the met in new york, i think there's one in boston.....
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Hatshepsut13
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Thanks for the help KyleJustin!
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Isis Statue Reply with quote

Hatshepsut13 wrote:
... Alot of these gold statues with her wings spread out came up and the were really beautiful. ... my question is, was there a real statue that this one is based off of? or is it just interpretation. ...

I have never seen a statue like this original from Ancient Egypt. Goddesses (and gods) in feather dress or with wings are known from the MK onwards in relief or picture. The most populare examples are on the so called "rishi" coffins from the NK. On the doors of the shrines from Tutankhamuns tomb are some very impressive examples, also on his golden coffin. Queens and kings can bear a feather dress to, an example from the collection of the Louvre in Paris :

Queen Tiy next to King Amenhotep III (Paris, Louvre, N 2312 = E 25493)

Greetings, Lutz.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Lutz that the statuette in the photo doesn't seem to be actually ancient in style. You see the style in a lot of museum gift shops, however.

I would also add to the list a lot of coffins from the Third Intermediate Period, and often the cartonnage examples from Dynasty 22 and 23. See this example:



My apologies for how small the photo is but I had a hard time finding better. It comes from this page.

On the chest is the winged figure of Re-Horakhty. Below this you can see two standing, lateral figures whose outstretched wings cross over the torso of the coffin. I can't tell which is which from this distance but one is Isis and the other is Nephthys. The two winged figures below the goddesses are typically falcon figures.
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Hatshepsut13
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the help Lutz Very Happy I can scratch the statue off of my shopping list.

Kmt_sesh hey what do you mean by not ancient in style? does it mean there was outside influences in the art of third intermediate period? or that they just changed the way they did art becoming much different than the way they used to do it? I admit that for some reason those big coffins rounded coffins always looked cartoonish to me. maybe a new style?

P.S. Thanks for the replies!
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also believe that it would be illegal to recreate a known statue from Ancient Egypt. Not sure where i got that from, but something to do with selling of forgeries, etc.

Stuart
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hatshepsut13 wrote:
...

Kmt_sesh hey what do you mean by not ancient in style? does it mean there was outside influences in the art of third intermediate period? or that they just changed the way they did art becoming much different than the way they used to do it? I admit that for some reason those big coffins rounded coffins always looked cartoonish to me. maybe a new style?

P.S. Thanks for the replies!


Sorry for the confusion, Hatshepsut13. By "not ancient" I was referring to your statue in the photo. It bears the hallmarks of ancient Egyptian iconography, but I think both Lutz and I were trying to stress that the particular style is modern. Ancient Egypt has had tremendous influences on all avenues of modern art, from the Art Deco period on.

Lutz and I were trying to provide examples of how a winged Isis was actually depicted in statuary and in other presentations. The Third Intermediate Period definitely belongs to what we call ancient Egypt, so my example was meant to show one way Isis was depicted on coffins of that period. Yes, the changes from that period are discernible to the modern eye but still very much in keeping with ancient Egyptian standards and tastes.

My own favorite coffin styles date to early in the Third Intermediate Period. It might have been a rather tough time for Egyptians, being ruled as they were by federations of Libyan elites, but in my opinion the coffin styles of that period are beautiful.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
I also believe that it would be illegal to recreate a known statue from Ancient Egypt. Not sure where i got that from, but something to do with selling of forgeries, etc. ...

That is definitely not true, as a short look in the copy right law shows. Our well-liked and not really missed friend Hawass used this argument for the photo ban in the Egyptian museum Cairo. What has been so foolish as there are enough pictures on the web and in books to buy (also by art forgers)... Where he earned quite often privately and directly as publisher or preface writer...

Greetings, Lutz.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
I also believe that it would be illegal to recreate a known statue from Ancient Egypt. Not sure where i got that from, but something to do with selling of forgeries, etc.

Stuart


In addition to Lutz's explanation, you might recall some years back Hawass was trying more or less to copyright pharaonic monuments. This might be what you were thinking of.

Basically, then, someone who photographed the Great Pyramid and wished to sell prints of it back home, could not do so without first receiving written authorization from the Egyptian government. And naturally the Egyptian government would get a cut of the profits.

So I suppose the same could be applied to recognizable pharaonic statues like the colossi at Abu Simbel or the Menkaure triads, but as far as I can tell the statuette in Hatshepsut13's picture is not based on an actual authentic pharaonic model.

I never heard what became of Hawass's scheme to slap copyrights on everything. If nothing else, it was an amusing escapade.
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Hatshepsut13
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kmt_sesh Ohhh ok cool. haha sorry for my misunderstanding. It would be really cool to own some sort of replica of A.E. art, so I hope its not illegal to make replicas. hopefully there are things you can find somewhere. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to Lutz and to Kmt_Sesh for putting me right.

It seems that the source of my post was indeed Mr Hawass. I always appreciate it when someone correct faults without "shooting the messenger" and this forum is extremely good for obtaining the facts

Thanks again

Stuart
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hatshepsut13 wrote:
Kmt_sesh Ohhh ok cool. haha sorry for my misunderstanding. It would be really cool to own some sort of replica of A.E. art, so I hope its not illegal to make replicas. hopefully there are things you can find somewhere. Smile


As long as it's not a piece of art on which a person or museum or institution holds the copyright, you should have no problem.

Of course, you might encounter some trouble if you want to sell 10,000 busts of Zahi Hawass, complete with scowling face and fedora. Laughing
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