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khazarkhum
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhetmaatre wrote:

If Baketaten was born at the time of Akhenaten's marriage to Nefertiti, or was too young to marry, it might make sense that she could become a secondary wife. It also makes sense that she may have become a wife to Smenkhkare around year 12 Akhenaten, bore Tutankhamen and then died, perhaps in childbirth, leaving Smenkhkare free to take Maritaten as GRW when he was elevated to the throne.


KV35YL did not die in childbirth. Her death was violent. She may have been kicked by a horse, or suffered a vicious fall. Having seen first hand what happens when a horse kicks you in the face, I would say that survival depends on the ability of the medical staff to know enough to dig your teeth out of your throat. After that, having the gash stitched closed promptly and treated to avoid infection. Since her gashed face was never sewn up, it's clear she didn't survive the initial blow.
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Her death was violent. She may have been kicked by a horse, or suffered a vicious fall. Having seen first hand what happens when a horse kicks you in the face, I would say that survival depends on the ability of the medical staff to know enough to dig your teeth out of your throat. After that, having the gash stitched closed promptly and treated to avoid infection. Since her gashed face was never sewn up, it's clear she didn't survive the initial blow.


While I'm not disputing your claim, I would like to see a source for that. I've never heard that before. The last I read the jury was still out as to whether or not the broken face was a product of tomb robbery. Though I've read she does bear a gash on her side that doesn't seem to be connected with embalming.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhetmaatre wrote:
Quote:
Her death was violent. She may have been kicked by a horse, or suffered a vicious fall. Having seen first hand what happens when a horse kicks you in the face, I would say that survival depends on the ability of the medical staff to know enough to dig your teeth out of your throat. After that, having the gash stitched closed promptly and treated to avoid infection. Since her gashed face was never sewn up, it's clear she didn't survive the initial blow.


While I'm not disputing your claim, I would like to see a source for that. I've never heard that before. The last I read the jury was still out as to whether or not the broken face was a product of tomb robbery. Though I've read she does bear a gash on her side that doesn't seem to be connected with embalming.


From no less than Dr. Hawass's site discussing the review of KV 35 from some years ago:

Another point raised by the Nefertiti enthusiasts is that the lower portion of the Younger Lady’s face is badly damaged, taken as evidence of an extreme form of damnatio memoriae appropriate for someone as controversial as Akhenaten’s great wife. However, the team’s radiologist, Dr. Ashraf Selim, argues that if the mummy’s face had indeed been smashed after embalming, one would expect to see bits of dried bone and flesh within the wound; the CT-scan performed by the EMP revealed very few pieces of the relevant broken bones within the sinus cavity, suggesting that the damage to the mummy’s face occurred before embalming, most likely even before death. (Emphasis, mine.)

The facial damage is asserted as the proximate cause of death in Table 3, note B, at page 645 of

Hawass, Z., Y. Z. Gad, et al. 2010. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun’s Family. Journal of the American medical Association 303/7: 638-647.

HTH.
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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the CT-scan performed by the EMP revealed very few pieces of the relevant broken bones within the sinus cavity, suggesting that the damage to the mummy’s face occurred before embalming, most likely even before death. (Emphasis, mine.)

The facial damage is asserted as the proximate cause of death in Table 3, note B, at page 645 of

Hawass, Z., Y. Z. Gad, et al. 2010. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun’s Family. Journal of the American medical Association 303/7: 638-647.


That is VERY interesting.

If you don't mind my asking, is there anything in the document that mentions a slash in her left side? Or is there a place outside of JAMA to purchase it legally? In 2010 when it first came out it could only be had by joining at $150 yearly in the States.

Or has this already been discussed in another thread?
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tut may not have been a deliberate event. it's quite possible smenkhkare was not married to his sister. maybe they had an affair. maybe he forced himself on her. one of george III's sons was rumoured to have raped one of is sisters. it may not be true, but they certainly never left any women royal or otherwise alone in his company after that allegation. and this is a society that did not condone incest......
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khazarkhum wrote:
Ankhetmaatre wrote:

If Baketaten was born at the time of Akhenaten's marriage to Nefertiti, or was too young to marry, it might make sense that she could become a secondary wife. It also makes sense that she may have become a wife to Smenkhkare around year 12 Akhenaten, bore Tutankhamen and then died, perhaps in childbirth, leaving Smenkhkare free to take Maritaten as GRW when he was elevated to the throne.


KV35YL did not die in childbirth. Her death was violent. She may have been kicked by a horse, or suffered a vicious fall. Having seen first hand what happens when a horse kicks you in the face, I would say that survival depends on the ability of the medical staff to know enough to dig your teeth out of your throat. After that, having the gash stitched closed promptly and treated to avoid infection. Since her gashed face was never sewn up, it's clear she didn't survive the initial blow.


Which was probably merciful considering the state of AE medical knowledge - though they were fairly sophisticated in the treatment of wounds.
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Robson
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still believe that the scenes in Huya's tomb don't depict real life facts, but the afterlife, with Akhenaten, Nefertiti and their daughters playing the role of "supreme deities", providing happyness in both sides of the existence, in order to enhance Huya's role in the divinization of Baketaten, who was then DEAD and introduced with her mother in the royal cult of Neb-Maat-Re (a.k.a. Amenhotep III). The images of the banquet shared between the parties of the royal family reminds too much the funerary meals conventionally depicted in non-Atenist tombs. The imagem of the sculptor Iuty finishing Baketaten's statue and the expression "she lives" close to it, in my opinion, endorses a possible wishful thinking in which the princess was biologically dead while her ka[ survived through her statue to be placed in a shrine.
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khazarkhum
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meretseger wrote:
khazarkhum wrote:


KV35YL did not die in childbirth. Her death was violent. She may have been kicked by a horse, or suffered a vicious fall. Having seen first hand what happens when a horse kicks you in the face, I would say that survival depends on the ability of the medical staff to know enough to dig your teeth out of your throat. After that, having the gash stitched closed promptly and treated to avoid infection. Since her gashed face was never sewn up, it's clear she didn't survive the initial blow.


Which was probably merciful considering the state of AE medical knowledge - though they were fairly sophisticated in the treatment of wounds.


She would have choked on blood, teeth & tissue. You must react quickly and know to clear the airway.

Why they did not stitch the wound shut after the fact is interesting; but they never stitched the embalming wound, either. Neseret might know if they had a proscription about sewing the dead closed?
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