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Kiya & The Death of the Younger Lady
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that Kiya had titles such as the King's "Greatly Beloved" and he "Favorite" implies a deep relationship between the two Akhenaten and Kiya even more so than Akhenaten's relationship with Nefertiti

the way I see things, is that Kiya was in fact the mother of Tutankhamen therefore the daughter of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye but had a different name before hand. In fact i always thought that the name Kiya was short for a very different name such as Nebetah, yes i am implying that she could have been this mysterious princess. Nebetah is the only one who did not went into Queen ship or any other important matters during her father's reign. Even little Bekenaten had time in the lime light.

Thus to poke fun at that topic, if Bekenaten was supposedly Kiya's daughter why would Queen Tiye take care the child of one of her son's harem. perhaps Kiya was very close to Queen Tiye, hint hint her daughter. As a matter of fact didn't the two arrived in Amarna around the same time. So the individual in KV35 has to be Nebetah-Kiya, thus after several observations of the mummy and depictions of Kiya they sort of match up Kiya also had a long neck and long chin thus frequently wore a Nubian wig as this individual did in her life.

It makes perfect sense that Akhenaten(and Perhaps Queen Tiye) was frustrated at the fact that Nefertiti wasn't baring any male heirs so he looked else where to the next lady in line ,Kiya, who happened to be his blood sister( I don't think Akhenaten would skip a chance of conceiving a child with Kiya seeming that she was his favorite in all)

On to the murder scenario, I think it was widely in the open that Kiya was murdered by a very jealous Nefertiti( I don't think that Nefertiti wasn't all that great as a person as we are led to believe). I still believe that the scene where Nefertiti is smiting a female enemy or captive depicts her smiting Kiya her true enemy. There is no indication stating that this person was a foreigner what so ever for all we know this person in the smiting scene could have been a native Egyptian and she is shown wearing a Nubian Wig. Kiya was the only person that rivaled Nefertiti position thus to get rid of the competition the queen delt with Kiya on her own. I must say who ever recorded this was very smart. Arrow

I know that a lot of you will have a lot to throw against this but it is just a theory, a speculation of my curiosity . But I still don't think that we should throw out the possibility that Kiya was one of Akhenaten's younger sisters and Akhenaten's sister there are so many evidence that points to this direction( I've done tones of research and comparing of the Younger Lady and Kiya) I think she was. Coincidentally, Nebetah and Kiya has something in common they're both very mysterious individuals, could they've been one and the same Idea
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Robson
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frater0082 wrote:
But I still don't think that we should throw out the possibility that Kiya was one of Akhenaten's younger sisters and Akhenaten's sister there are so many evidence that points to this direction


Except that nowhere Kiya is named as "King's Daughter".
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
Frater0082 wrote:
But I still don't think that we should throw out the possibility that Kiya was one of Akhenaten's younger sisters and Akhenaten's sister there are so many evidence that points to this direction


Except that nowhere Kiya is named as "King's Daughter".


Yeah I know
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that Kiya's titulary is made up mostly of epithet glorifying her husband strongly implies she was not of high birth herself but owed her importance entirely to his favor, which was considerable. She clearly was not just another secondary wife - on the other hand she almost as certainly was NOT the mother of Tutankhamun or any other prince.
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
Frater0082 wrote:
But I still don't think that we should throw out the possibility that Kiya was one of Akhenaten's younger sisters and Akhenaten's sister there are so many evidence that points to this direction


Except that nowhere Kiya is named as "King's Daughter".


Maybe one day Kiya might be designated in an inscription as "King's daughter". Then other evidence pointing in that direction might be seen as credible. It seems that without an inscription for something 'something' can't have happened, no matter what any other evidence might suggest. Smile
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
Robson wrote:
Frater0082 wrote:
... Kiya was one of Akhenaten's younger sisters ... there are so many evidence that points to this direction


Except that nowhere Kiya is named as "King's Daughter".


Maybe one day Kiya might be designated in an inscription as "King's daughter". Then other evidence pointing in that direction might be seen as credible. ...

I do not know one single "evidence" ... So, can someone give them?

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Orwell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did just suggest what might happen if one inscription was found, Lutz. One inscription can make a big deal of difference in Egyptology! Very Happy
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May indeed be the case. But as far as I know there was not found one until today. And a "what-if game" probably helps not really...

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Robson
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an example of the logical fallacy called argumentum ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance), with which even unicorns, elves and fairies can be admitted as existing, once no evidence in contrary was never found, in accordance with the silogism "absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence".
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
I did just suggest what might happen if one inscription was found, Lutz. One inscription can make a big deal of difference in Egyptology! Very Happy


I *seriously* doubt that will ever happen. 'King's Daughter' was not some minor title it defined the possessor's high social status. Kiya's title makes it clear her importance is tied solely to her relationship with Akhenaten strongly implying she had no other claims to high rank.
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess my thought was that inscriptions are not the only evidence one needs to build a case. The lack of them does not 'prove' anything, of course (yes, a lack of facts suggest a lack of facts!) but with so little left of what happened in ancient times, there can always be a possibility of more inscriptions being found which might refute any current Egyptological 'consensus'. This is NO an argument that these 'inscriptions' do exists. (Why do people here o often misinterpret what I say? It was - and still is - frustrating!) I have been keeping an eye on things here, while continuing with my studies of Ancient Egypt (especially the Amarna period), and I still find the confidence Egyptological experts (and dutiful laymen) have in any 'consensus' theory quite remarkable.
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's more a fact of there being many different inscriptions about kiya, from monuments, and wine jar dockets etc. some are fragmentary, some complete. titles such as 'great royal wife' or 'king's daughter' were really impressive, and would have been used if the bearer had a right to use them. the only exception is ankhesenamun, and we know she dropped them because her father was in such disgrace she wanted to distance herself.

if kiya had been entitled to those titles, it would be the first thing recorded on any text mentioning her. since they have hundreds of samples and maybe more, don't you think it a bit odd, that not once has she used them?
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Hundreds' of Kiya inscriptions (presuming them to be consistent, identifiable and accurately translatable) would clearly strengthen any case. Smile Have these 'hundreds' been published, as I am reading everything I can find?
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, the formulation "hundreds' of" shoots far beyond the target and can not stand this way. The currently known evidence for Kiya can be found, among other, for example in

Arris Kramer : Enigmatic Kiya. - In: A Delta-man in Yebu - Occasional Volume of the Egyptologists' Electronic Forum 1. - Boca Raton, Fla. : Universal Publishers, 2003. - ISBN : 1-58112-564-X. - pp. 48 - 63.

Still, however, no one has answered my question for the supposedly numerous existing "evidence" ("... Kiya was one of Akhenaten's younger sisters ... there are so many evidence that points to this direction ..."). I do not know a single one...

Lutz
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