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"Fish" pharaoh of Dynasty 00

 
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Lost Pharaoh
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Location: Serbia, Belgrade

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: "Fish" pharaoh of Dynasty 00 Reply with quote

Can someone can help me to find symbol (hieroglyph) of this ruler? He is mentioned in Abydos succession "Dynasty 00-0" (according to G. Dreyer) in his work "G. Dreyer, Umm el-Qaab I, Mainz 1998", but I can't access it, to see from where he saw this ruler. Thank you.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send me an e-mail address by PM (Private Message) here on this board, please.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against the reading by Dreyer of these animal hieroglyphs as names of kings is...

Francis Amadeus Karl Breyer : Die Schriftzeugnisse des Prädynastischen Königsgrabes U-j in Umm el-Qaab - Versuch einer Neuinterpretation. - In: The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology - JEA 88. - 2002. - pp. 53 - 65.

Also about that theme but I have not read yet...

Jochem Kahl : Die frühen Schriftzeugnisse aus dem Grab U-j in Umm el-Qaab. - In: Chronique d'Égypte - Bulletin périodique de la Fondation Egyptologique Reine Elisabeth - CdE 78. - 2003. - pp. 112 - 135

Michael Höveler-Müller : Zu den frühzeitlichen Königen "Fingerschnecke" und "Fisch" aus dem Grab U-j in Umm el-Qaab. - In: Studien zur altägyptischen Kultur - SAK 37. - 2008. - pp. 159 - 167.

I ordered both at my library, will get them next week.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Than you for sending me references, but I didn't spot the 'fish' on pictures. Can you give me a point where to look, in what part of the picture?
P.S. Can you help me with my other post that I made, about Haty Hor name?
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Günter Dreyer : Das prädynastische Königsgrab U-j und seine frühen Schriftzeugnisse. - Mainz : Zabern, 1998. - p. 63, fig. 43:



Fish on the left, Tree to the right.

Following Dreyer it is an indication for origin of the product inside the jar. Dreyer identified the fish as a cichlid (following J. Boessneck : Die Tierwelt des Alten Ägypten. - München : Verlag C.H. Beck, 1988. - Fig. 210) .

In Abydos U-j the fish is found only in combination with the tree. Dreyer thinks the two characters can mean "Plantation / Economic commodity of the King Fish".

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, now I understand. Smile I didn't see it because I didn't watch the whole picture, I searched for the fish inside this drawing Smile
Thanks Lutz, thanks for your help.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a German proverb : "I do not see the forest because of all the trees..." Razz

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know for that proverb, and I agree Wink Thank you for you help!
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