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What is hieroglyph in the name of this pharaoh?

 
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: What is hieroglyph in the name of this pharaoh? Reply with quote

What is the hieroglyph in serekh of this pharaoh? It is written that his name is read Hat(j)-Hor, but I cannot assign any hieroglyph to it.

Here is the link of the picture: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/new/uc16084detail.gif
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nicky_too
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tried to check that link, but get an 'page does not exist' error message. Do you have another link or can you possible put the image itself on the forum?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicky_too wrote:
I just tried to check that link, but get an 'page does not exist' error message. Do you have another link or can you possible put the image itself on the forum?


I hope this work Smile

http://s13.postimage.org/6nef27fg7/uc16084detail.gif
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nicky_too
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'm not sure I can really help you, but Google is your best friend. Smile

I have found this to begin with. Seems a drawn version of the image you refer to.

And would this be the original (whole jar is visible on that photo)?

If they are correct on that last page, this refers to Narmer. That makes it very old and very firmly out of my grasp when it comes to hieroglyphs. I am learning to read them at the moment, but unfortunately that means I can't help you any further. I'm sure there's someone on this forum who can though. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you anyway Smile For me it looks like a F18 from Gardiner Sign List, but it not have 'ht' as phonetic value. I hope I'll find the solution.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F18 I can onlyl find in Faulkner's dictionary as hw (the h has a . underneath), but that could be me being new to using that book. Embarassed

Just thinking out loud, but could it possibly be a 2-consonant sign which depicts a stone mace? That stands for hd (h with a . and d as in dj).
Possibly T3 on Gardiner's list.

Of course we are now looking at the other hieroglyph, not the one in the serekh.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your effort. I read that the sign at left side is a stone mace, the sign you refered, so that is correct, but the problem is the sign in rectangle shape. If I only know what hieroglyph is that...
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost Pharaoh wrote:
... but the problem is the sign in rectangle shape. If I only know what hieroglyph is that...

I would say this is not a sign, it is part of the serekh?

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually think that is it the sign, because it is clearly a separated from outline of serekh, and it is translated as 'hat(y)'. I need this because I digitalizing names of possible pharaohs from Dynasty 00/0.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost Pharaoh wrote:
I actually think that is it the sign, because it is clearly a separated from outline of serekh, ...

But then it would be not a serekh anymore? And, no serekh = no "Hor".

Lost Pharaoh wrote:
... and it is translated as 'hat(y)'. ...

The sign inside the serekh is tranliteratet with "ht (/ chat)". It is M3 - "bough" or can be also T14 - "throwstick". T14 can replace M3 (Hannig-Lexica I, 2006, p. 1377). T3 - "mace" is also transliterated with "hd", but it is not inside the serekh.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for clarification Smile So it would be more appropriate to read it Khat(y)-Hor Smile
P.S. What would be the meaning of that name? Horus the strong?
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Aset
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost Pharaoh wrote:
I actually think that is it the sign, because it is clearly a separated from outline of serekh, and it is translated as 'hat(y)'. I need this because I digitalizing names of possible pharaohs from Dynasty 00/0.


I found:

1. (Source: Francesco Raffaele, THE DYNASTY 0)
Quote:
HAT-HOR is the reading of a serekh on a jar from Tarkhan tomb 1702 (as for Nj-Hor this serekh is falconless too, so the reading could be simply Hat or Haty [51]); the name sign would be probably associated with Nar(mer) too if the jar on which it is incised (type 74b) wasn't of too early a type for Narmer's reign which is Naqada IIIb2-c1.

2. (German Wikipedia)
Hat-Hor / Hor-Hat
The reading and interpretation of his name is not sure.
Quote:

Horus name:

Hor-hat
Hr.(w)-HA.t

'First of Horus'
Quote:
... but the problem is the sign in rectangle shape. If I only know what hieroglyph is that...

F4 - HAt Very Happy

Aset
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Aset. The life is more beautiful now Smile
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