Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Edfu creation texts - how ancient are they?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pre-dynastic Egypt
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
damoncasale
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Location: Seffner, FL

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Edfu creation texts - how ancient are they? Reply with quote

I'm doing research on the origins of ancient Egypt. According to "Egypt: Image of Heaven" by Willem Zitman, the Edfu creation texts were reflective of much earlier religious thought, and described, in symbolic terms, where the Egyptians themselves claimed to have come from. To interpret this symbolism, Zitman took a cue from a "planisphere" (a tablet containing a map of the constellations), found in Mesopotamia, which indicated that ancient peoples were using astrological symbolism to represent actual places on Earth. (For example, the constellation Orion represented Egypt itself.) He deduced that the Edfu creation texts pointed to a location in northeast Africa, near paleo lake Chad, and produced archaeological evidence of pottery dating to 8500 BC (!) as well as rock art which resembled predynastic Egyptian motifs.

My question is this. This theory would only hold water if the Edfu texts are actually indicative of much earlier Egyptian religious beliefs. Since the temple complex at Edfu was rebuilt in the second century BC, it's *possible* -- but by no means certain -- that the creation texts were copied from whatever earlier structure was there.

Does anyone know of any textual analysis of the Edfu creation texts that might have been done to determine how old they are? It's apparently possible to trace the development of religious symbolism from the Old Kingdom, through the Middle Kingdom and into the New Kingdom (or so I've read, albeit in more detail, in certain books on ancient Egypt that I've come across), so...any ideas?

Damon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Osiris II
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1752

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.library.exploreregypt.com/ancient-egypt-history/legends-of-the-egyptian-gods/04-the-legend-of-horus-of-edfu-and-the-winged-disk.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Edfu creation texts - how ancient are they? Reply with quote

damoncasale wrote:
... Does anyone know of any textual analysis of the Edfu creation texts that might have been done to determine how old they are? ...

See : The Edfu Project of the Archaeological Institute of the University of Hamburg . The texts are processed systematically for years, translated and published.

Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Edfu creation texts - how ancient are they? Reply with quote

damoncasale wrote:
... Does anyone know of any textual analysis of the Edfu creation texts that might have been done to determine how old they are? ...

On the subject may also be of interest...

Ragnhild Bjerre Finnestad :

Image of the World and Symbol of the Creator - On the Cosmological and Iconological Values of the Temple of Edfu. - [Uppsala, Univ., Diss., 1982 (in parts)]. - Wiesbaden : Harrassowitz, 1985. - ISBN : 3-447-02504-2. - X, 174 p. - Studies in Oriental Religions 10

and

Temples of the Ptolemaic and Roman Periods - Ancient Traditions in New Contexts. - Ithaca, NY : Cornell University Press, 1997. - ISBN : 0-8014-3399-1. - Temples of Ancient Egypt. - pp. 185 - 237.

Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
damoncasale
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Location: Seffner, FL

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, Osiris II, but all I really got out of that is that the author of the article *says* that the material is probably ancient. No reasoning or explanation how he knows that.

The Edfu Project is great to know about, but doesn't do me much good as I don't speak/read German. Idea

On the other hand, the book references look really helpful. Interlibrary loan is my friend for the first (don't feel like spending $100 to own a copy w/o seeing what's in it first!), but if I can get the second used on Amazon for just $10 plus shipping, that's a definite.

Thanks!

Damon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

damoncasale wrote:
... The Edfu Project is great to know about, but doesn't do me much good as I don't speak/read German. Idea ...

Sorry, but if you want to employ really serious about the subject you will come not around the German but also the French literature about Edfu.

By the way, taking a look at the sub-item " Library " in the navigation list to the left of the web page of Edfu - Project could be interesting for one or the other ... Cool

Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Styler78
Priest
Priest


Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 974
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Edfu creation texts - how ancient are they? Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
damoncasale wrote:
... Does anyone know of any textual analysis of the Edfu creation texts that might have been done to determine how old they are? ...

See : The Edfu Project of the Archaeological Institute of the University of Hamburg . The texts are processed systematically for years, translated and published.

Greetings, Lutz.


Thanks for the link, Lutz. I loved my only visit to Edfu and look forward to looking at the Edfy Project now that i am aware of it. Muh appreciated,

Stuart
_________________
Beloved of Hathor, Chief of Thebes, Not the Messiah just a Very Naughty Boy!

http://styler78hatshepsutproject.blogspot.com/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ranoferhotep
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1197
Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also my thanks for the link about the Edfu project Lutz. I can use it very well for my own little project. And you are correct that some of the better literature about A.E. are in German and French. We do have to be polyglots. Very Happy
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dreamregent
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damoncasale wrote:
The Edfu Project is great to know about, but doesn't do me much good as I don't speak/read German. Idea


You could use Google Translate to view the website in english...
_________________
Thanks,

Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pre-dynastic Egypt All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group