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Did Hatshepsut Intend for Neferure to Succede Her as King?
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Note to "Senenmut and Neferura" (London, BM, EA174, 1906,1115.1) ... I think just from the photos on the BM - Homepage one can not really clarify the question. Especially since not even a side view is available. Maybe someone from London can have a look / make a better picture?

Greetings, Lutz.


I'll try to go this week. I am familiar with the statue, but I'll try to take photos if possible to back up what I believe (that it isn't a beard).

I like the idea that Nefeure was the "crown prince" as the eldest surviving child of Tuthmosis II until Tuthmosis III himself produced an heir.

Tuthmosis III being very young (1 or 2 years old) is also the strongest argument for Hatchepsut's taking the senior role in the Kingship and not being challenged.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The head of the princess (with title gods wife in front of the name in cartouche, on the left) from the cube in Berlin (ÄMP 2296, maybe from TT 71):



Again, the corresponding point on the chin looks at least strange. Also noteworthy, in my view, is the writhing body of the uraeus on the top of the head. I do not know in this form from the head of a queen / princess ??

For all interested in, here is the list of the statues of Senenmut (as PDF) from Christine Meyer : Senenmut - Eine prosopographische Untersuchung. - [Diss., Hamburg, 1981]. - Hamburg : Borg, 1982. - XV + 337 p., 9 pl., pp. 28 - 51.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
... Also noteworthy, in my view, is the writhing body of the uraeus on the top of the head. I do not know in this form from the head of a queen / princess ?? ...

Wrong, there are other representations of queens in this kind, sorry.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thiuke wrote:

Quote:
I have never come across any statement of a pharaoh's sister being the heiress to the throne and the official crownprincess. We have seen the daughters and sisters of a Pharaoh marry his successor who is not his son or even a close relative but women were not heiresses to the throne.
In a few instances women ruled and to the best of my knowledge they only did so because there was no adult male ruler when they took to the throne. Thutmosis III was still young and had a great royal consort and like other monarchs a harem. The Great Royal Wife may not have given birth to a son yet (she might very well have been Nefereru herself) but that does not make his half-sister the heiress to the land.


Karnsculpture wrote:
Quote:
Tuthmosis III being very young (1 or 2 years old) is also the strongest argument for Hatchepsut's taking the senior role in the Kingship and not being challenged.


I think the point is that there was no adult male heir until Thutmose III's son Amonemose was born.

If Thutmose III was an infant or toddler at the time of his accession he was not going to be physically able to sire an heir for at least a decade. Even by year 7 when Hatshepsut had assumed kingly titles, he was likely still quite a few years away from puberty. The possibility that he might die in childhood must have been very real. Yes, there were other boy kings in fairly recent history but it is possible that both Ahmose and Amonhotep I had younger brothers or other male relatives who could become king if they died.

Once Amonemhat, Thutmose's eldest son was born, Neferure was no longer the heiress. Indeed, if he was her son, she might have agreed to the alteration of her images.

This whole episode was unusual, and of course we know that late in his reign Thutmose III took steps to curb the power of the royal women. We shouldn't be surprised to see some unusual things going on here.
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So to answer the original post then, yes Hatchepsut did for a time groom Nefeure to follow her AND Tuthmosis III, as she was next in line to the throne, until Tuthmosis produced a male heir.

In addition, it must be assumed that she was being groomed to be the next Great Royal Wife.

This explains here very visible presence as a child.
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I went to the British Museum this morning but Senmut and Nefeure were otherwise engaged so I've been advised to call on Monday to arrange an appointment to see them.

The museum staff were very understanding but would not confirm or deny that the Princess was sporting a beard, saying I should see for myself.
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