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Sexual rituals at Egyptian temples
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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Sex in the Temple Reply with quote

Naunacht -I think if you read what I have said you will see that I am well aware of the proscriptions on sex in the temple precincts.
Fortunately for all of us Spiritual life in Ancient Egypt was not a forerunner to the Roman Catholic Church.
Religiously based sex is a harmonious practice in many genuine spiritual traditions and particularly inherent in Ancient Egypt because of the structure and interweaving of gods and goddesses which we call tantra nowadays.
Its as easy as ABC and i am sure you have done though not when in unity with a deity no doubt.
All things are pure including sex and sexuality - if you had read the sacred Egyptian texts properly you would surely know this.

Truth to say judging by the level of response here if I find a small part of some temple with an obvious sexual ritual I had better keep it to myself
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As still said, instead here constantly drain your pseudo-religes ramblings it would certainly be helpful to come up with concrete archaeologically documented sources for your assertions.

Most of the users here in this forum are more orientated in classical Egyptology. So, you do not have to wonder if you get on your "curiosities" (to say it polite) the corresponding answers...

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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Thin on the ground Reply with quote

Lutz - one problem with sexual practices in Ancient Egypt is let us say we find 'no sex in temples ' texts - fine but 'Ancient Egypt' spans 3800 years of continuous practice in places separated by time and space in the Nile valley. This is an inconceivably long time for us who think in terms of a few years for abrupt changes in mores and habits.

Archaeology - though marvellous in its discoveries and welcome through is efforts is also the reinventing of the past in terms of the present.
It's not rocket science or chemistry and the view of history changes as our own culture changes.
Few archaeologists have any real grasp of Egyptian religion and why should they. They have no knowledge to interpret what they find against.
I am not much phased by your remarks about ' pseudo-religious rumblings because the Ancient Egyptian culture was very religious to an exception over 3800 years - it is the binding feature of the civilisation - and what excites those who love it - even you I suspect.
Anyway I will finsh this ramble to remark that
I am not too happy about 'gods hand ' though it the sort of thing thst could be possible and the Min statues are more of a potency symbol than straightly sexual.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: Thin on the ground Reply with quote

Kaefra wrote:
Lutz - one problem with sexual practices in Ancient Egypt is let us say we find 'no sex in temples ' texts - fine but 'Ancient Egypt' spans 3800 years of continuous practice in places separated by time and space in the Nile valley. ...

The question here in this thread was about Karnak-Temple. But also from other temples from the Old Kingdom to Ptolemaic there have been found no proofs for your statements. And in the end it is that what matters. Not what one self appointed "knower" imagines himself to know.
Kaefra wrote:
... Few archaeologists have any real grasp of Egyptian religion and why should they. They have no knowledge to interpret what they find against. ...

And what makes you think you have? After everything I could read here so far from you I have my doubt. In another thread you were not even able to distinguish the different ancient Egyptian texts and clearly to name them...

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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the difference is that you or I can talk to someone well versed in the Hindu faith and he or she can talk to me and explain their beliefs and practices which do combine the sensual with the spiritual. The problem with ancient Egypt is that we can't talk to them. We can only look at what little we have of what they wrote and what they depicted on the monuments that survived. We have some testimony from Greek and Roman observers, particularly Herotodus, who saw the culture in its last phases, and didn't understand a great deal of what they saw. That's about it.

I don't think anyone is saying that the Egyptians were quite as hide bound with regard to sex as the Catholic Church. There was an ecstatic element to some festivals, Hathor's Feast of Drunkeness, for example or the Festival of Bast, which if we're going to believe Herotodus (which we probably shouldn't) involved women behaving badly. What you're saying may even be true but you don't have any hard evidence that it is and that's the problem.
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fi11222
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to try and ressurect this thread with a slightly different angle and hope I am not going to *** anyone.

In Mesopotamiam religion, there ARE numerous attestations of sexual rituals, mostly centered originally around the cult of Ishtar/Inanna: Hieros Gamos between kings and chief priestesses, sacred prostitution for the masses.

In Roman times, there were male and female prostitutes attached to the temples of a number of cults orginating from the Near East: Cybele, Astarte etc.

Was there ever anything comparable in Egypt?[/url]
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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Well Done Reply with quote

I ahve got a bit closer reading some various translations which read in a typically Egytpian oblique way such references to raising the Djed column and Amun being taken upstairs to unite with Hathor ostensibly a symbolic statue procession in a temple but maybe more involving people than is at first evident

Stillhowever it is getting first class translations of materials in the temlpe booths. As far as i know there were no sacred prostitution in Egypt - good time girls were just that as far as I know!!
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a collection of essays on the topic that is readable online in major parts: Tempelprostitution im Altertum - Fakten und Fiktionen. - [Oikumene - Studien zur antiken Weltgeschichte 6]. - Berlin : Verl. Antike, 2009. - 415 p.

Two articles deal specifically with Egypt...

Joachim Friedrich Quack : Herodot, Strabo und die Pallakide von Theben. - pp. 154 - 182.

Reinhold Scholl : Tempelprostitution im griechisch-römischen Ägypten? Hierodouloi als Tempelsklaven und Tempelprostituierte?. - pp. 183 - 197.

Although the articles are in German, both have an English summary at the beginning, which are quite clear in their statement.

Greetings, Lutz.
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