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Henut-wadjbu in KV 63
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Henut-wadjbu in KV 63 Reply with quote

Rozette posted a blog entry by Dr Otto Schaden
http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1585&start=225

Coffin E belonged to a woman named Henut-wadjbu. And the coffin may have originally belonged to a man.

Henut-wadjbu is not a name I have ever heard about from the royal family, so this cache may contain funerary materials of possibly some nobles?
Unless Henut-wadjbu was a minor wife (concubine) of one of the kings, but I don't see any good reason to believe that from what I have read.

Some of the high ranking nobles were given burial in the Valley of the Kings. So maybe the wife / mother / daughter of a high ranking individual?

The only Henut-wadjbu I have heard of before is the woman whose mummy and beautiful coffin are now in the St Louis Art Museum. She does date roughly to the Amarna period. Her husband was associatedd to the temple of Aten, but I think in Memphis.
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke wrote :
Quote:
The only Henut-wadjbu I have heard of before is the woman whose mummy and beautiful coffin are now in the St Louis Art Museum. She does date roughly to the Amarna period. Her husband was associatedd to the temple of Aten, but I think in Memphis.


The coffin of Henut-wadjebu was found in a small undecorated tomb at the foot of Sheikh abd el-Qurna hill, belonging to the "scribe and granary-overseer of the Mansion of the Aten, Hatiay.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reminder Very Happy
So that Henut-wedjebu was also from Thebes.

Just for the record: I am NOT suggesting there's a connection between the Henut-wedjebus Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

because her coffin was in the vok, does it mean she was buried there?
could her coffin have been taken there to dismantle her burial?
and then just buried at the end of the tomb desecrations?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what her relations to this family is
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was also a queen Henut she was supposedly a minor wife to Amenhotep 3. Not suggesting that there's a connection between the two. This certainly brings alot of questions and mystifies my mind.

Plus there was a indication of a royal nurse named Iny. Whose nurse could she have been could she have been in the nurse of this family unknown woman. Who really knows

I find it very peculiar that two small golden coffins were found hidden under pillows one of the coffins. Why they were they placed there? Why were they hidden. My idea was that this was material left from the mummification of Tutankhamen's daughters. Everything seems to date to the time of Tutankhamen in the early part of his reign.

I held speculation at one time that KV21A was a child of Amenhotep the third. First I thought that she was one of Amenhotep 3's attested daughters but then I speculated that she may not be what if she is an unrecorded princess of minor importance. Which also drew me to the question of was there a co-regency between Amenhotep and his son

My speculation was that maybe she wasn't so much of non-importance what if she is the child of one of five of Amenhotep 3's great Royal Wives. Tiye, Nebetnehat, Sitamun, Iset, Gildukhepa and Henttaneb. I specifically chosen Nebetnehat because I doubt Amenhotep 3 would concieve an heir out of his children.

This was just speculation but I believe that the KV21 mummies are mother and daughter not sisters Ankh and Mery. Idea
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, and the DNA of the KV21 mummies only at this stage indicates they are part of the family, not exactly who they are.

The issue of the KV21 mummies relationship to KV55 is vexing because the DNA indicates they can't be daughters of KV55, yet one is the possible mother of at least one of the foetuses from KV62, with Tutakkhamun. This is one of the major factors that has made many doubt that KV55 is Akhenaten.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185393&resultClick=3
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
Sure, and the DNA of the KV21 mummies only at this stage indicates they are part of the family, not exactly who they are.

The issue of the KV21 mummies relationship to KV55 is vexing because the DNA indicates they can't be daughters of KV55, yet one is the possible mother of at least one of the foetuses from KV62, with Tutakkhamun. This is one of the major factors that has made many doubt that KV55 is Akhenaten.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185393&resultClick=3


That's exactly my point. I don't think the KV21A mummy is one of Akhenaten's daughters at all. I sort of think she is a minor child of Amenhotep III (speculation). This mysterious Henut-Wajebu could be a distant relative or a noble

However the name of the royal wetnurse, the two golden coffins, to me adds up to this theory that perhaps Henut-Wajebu was the mother of the two fetuses therefore a distant relative of Tutankhamen or another wetnurse who may have been assigned to one of Tut's daughters while Iny served as the other. It seems lime this could be the remenants of the burial of two of Tut's children.

It makes since why the embombers used wood in this. This could indicate the level of class the individual had in society. Perhaps Henut-Wajebu was of middle class. Another daunting clue is the evidence of a minor God. Correct me if i'm wrong but usually majority of the kings and queens associate themselves with the high order of Gods like Isis Amun-re and Thoth.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frater0082 wrote:
However the name of the royal wetnurse, the two golden coffins, to me adds up to this theory that perhaps Henut-Wajebu was the mother of the two fetuses therefore a distant relative of Tutankhamen or another wetnurse who may have been assigned to one of Tut's daughters while Iny served as the other. It seems lime this could be the remenants of the burial of two of Tut's children..


Henut-Wa(d)jebu, AFAICR, is attested as a chantress of Amun, who was married to Hatiay, the overseer of the granary of the Aten. She was not of royal lineage (Onstine 2001: 73; see also Kozloff, et al 1992: 312-17, which lists the inscription upon the coffin, which notes her sole other title as "lady of the house.") She lists no duties/titles in relation to the royal house.)

News article concerning her coffin, attesting to her non-royal lineage.

Her shabti.

Berman (In Kozloff et al 1992: 314) notes that the name "Henut" means "mistress" and names combined with /Hnwt/ are common during Dynasty 18 (such as "Henuttaneb" (one of Amenhotep III's daughters) and "Henuttawy", a chantress of Amun during the 21st Dynasty) but the combination of "Henut-wedjebu" is known more frequently during the Ramessid period of the 19th Dynasty.

Reference:

Kozloff, A. P., et al. 1992. Egypt's Dazzling Sun: Amenhotep III and His World. Cleveland: Cleveland Museum of Art.

Onstine, S. L. 2001. The Role of the Chantress (smAyt) in Ancient Egypt. Ph.D. Dissertation (Unpublished). Toronto: University of Toronto.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again it was speculation but it is very intriguing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell fairy tales sums it up more...

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neseret
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reviewing Schaden's notes at KV-63.com, he has doubts that this coffin was ever used by Henut-wadju, or possibly by anyone at all. The presence of the male glyph may indicate that the coffin was part of a production line of coffins (not unknown during the New Kingdom), and possibly set for reuse. I say this as the coffin was heavily covered with resin, the glyphs with the name of Henut-wadju were obscured, and the male glyph may indicate the coffin was merely a product of the embalmer's workshop.

Frater0082 mentions a "Queen Henut" of Amenhotep III: again, this is incorrect. Amenhotep III had a daughter called Henuttaneb, but she was never his queen and carried only the titles of /sAt nsw/ "daughter of the king," and /sAt nsw mrt.f/ "daughter of the king whom he loves." She holds no royal wife titles (Troy 1986; Grajetzki 2005).

So, I think one is talking about KV 63's Henut-wadju's coffin as if it were somehow significant, which I doubt it is (although we have yet to see the final reports, so this all may change one the final translations are made). However, whoever Henut-wadju was, she was not a queen, based upon the presently displayed glyph translations published on the KV 63 website.

As Schaden notes, the name Henut-wadju is not unknown during the 18th Dynasty, and this coffin could refer either to a different Henut-wadju than the famous chantress of Amun, OR it is possible this is a supplemental coffin to that interment.

Reference:

Grajetzki, W. 2005. Ancient Egyptian Queens: A Hieroglyphic Dictionary. London: Golden House Publications.

Troy, L. 1986. Patterns of Queenship: in ancient Egyptian myth and history. BOREAS 14. Uppsala: ACTA Universitatis Upsaliensis.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Tell fairy tales sums it up more...

Lutz


No Henut-Wajebu has nothing to do with me or my story at all I just thought that maybe since her name was attested in the tomb and with a royal nurse that maybe she was kv21a

None of my curent speculation has anything to do with my story I'm just as curious as you are because like i've said I wasn't there I came back after Tut's reign.

I will say this though that the archaeological dating for the time after Tutankaten is wrong. The nineteenth Dynasty began about almost a decade( 8 years) after the 18th dynasty fell. Ay and Horembed shared about the same reign length.

It is incorrectly stated that Horembed was the one responsible for the erasure of the Aten Pharaohs on monuments and historical records it was the Ramessides that did all that dirty work.

If Horembed did reign for as long as they say he did, he would have had a successful reign. To me, when reading Horembed's accomplishments, he didn't do much for a king whom reigned for almost two decades. I thought he would have done anything to disrespect Tutankaten in death because Tut declared him his successor.

Seti had a great hatred for Akhenaten for his religous turmoils. King Seti wouldn't even have known about Akhenaten or his religious turmoils unless he may have lived it. Even according to Wikipedia( your sources) King Seti's main priority was to establish order in Egypt's society. Why? when clearly there was more than enough time to do this before him. This is another indication that Horembed only reigned for a short period of time. They hated our guts.

Akhetaten was in ruins by the time of Ramses I. It looked as it is today. No, I did not live a fairy tale life skipping down the valleys and playing in the Nile, it was a nightmare for me and my sisters

We watched how all this went down. At first, Seti didn't want me there he wanted me to take the next chairot back to Mitanni. The aftershock of Akhenaten's upheavals had a great effect on people. My sisters and I had to deal with the consequences. I was called a scourge of Amarna by Ramses I.

There was no fairy tale ending because I ended up dying by a wound inflicted by Seti himself(Nubian Rebellion).

I'm sorry Kevin, to you and all the posters, but Lutz tend to take me there when he wants to, but I'm not mad at him. Oh god we're worse than kids here.
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I meant in the dynasty third paragraph was I doubt that Horembed was responsible for the erasings because he was a loyal subject to Tuankhamen and probably to his predecessors.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frater0082 wrote:
... I will say this though that the archaeological dating for the time after Tutankaten is wrong. The nineteenth Dynasty began about almost a decade( 8 years) after the 18th dynasty fell. Ay and Horembed shared about the same reign length. ...

As I said, fairy tales by ignoring again and again the archaeological evidence...

Martin, Geoffrey T. : Re-excavating KV 57 (Horemheb) in the Valley of the Kings. - In: Abstract of Papers - Tenth International Congress of Egyptologists. University of the Aegean Rhodes, 22-29 May 2008. - 2008. - pp. 162 - 163

Martin found jar dockets bearing year dates 13 and 14 of Horemheb by re-excavating the well shaft in Chamber E (TMP). The highest date for Aja is year 4.

For the rest ... Rolling Eyes ... sleepy2

Lutz
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