Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Canaanite tomb with scarab of Seti I
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Eio
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is quite common to see all sorts of articles in the press trying to diagnose ancient Egyptians with various diseases from 'modern perspective'. Most of this stuff seems to be just nonsense IMHO.

Cheers,

Eio
_________________
The Past is Here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ankhetmaatre
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 205
Location: District of Columbia, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The earliest potential case of smallpox recorded was found on the mummy of Ramses V, according to Dr. Donald Hopkins*. Unfortunately, even that diagnoses was inconclusive. But frankly, the logic of this speculation escapes me. Even if some Egyptian royals did contract smallpox, in what way does that create evidence for the biblical exodus? Or a scarab of Seti I being found in a biblically referenced Canaanite site, for that matter? It's evidence of something we already knew, certainly - that Seti I had extensive influence in both Egypt and the Levant. Anything else is wild speculation that files in the face of deductive reasoning. There is no evidence of any wide scale migration of an ethnically coherent group moving across the Sinai desert during the New Kingdom period of Ancient Egyptian history. An event that, by rights, should have left a great many artifacts and campfire sites.

It will be very interesting to see if any conclusive DNA testing can be done. According to the article at the beginning of the thread, the burial seems to be very Egyptian.

* http://whqlibdoc.who.int/smallpox/WH_5_1980_p22.pdf
_________________
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ankhetmaatre
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 205
Location: District of Columbia, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, didn't realize that we were directed to move the topic in a different direction!
And on that note, what's really fascinating about this discovery, IMO, is the clay coffins. I wonder if clay was a stand-in for wood because of the expense of wood in that area or because it simply couldn't be had. Clay does have preservative qualities though. Many Native American artifacts are found preserved this way, interestingly.
_________________
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robson
Priest
Priest


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 976
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SidneyF wrote:
Here's your psoriasis.



Well...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3522
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhetmaatre wrote:
... what's really fascinating about this discovery, IMO, is the clay coffins. I wonder if clay was a stand-in for wood because of the expense of wood in that area or because it simply couldn't be had. Clay does have preservative qualities though. Many Native American artifacts are found preserved this way, interestingly.

These coffins are also known from Egypt and Nubian cemeterys, as far as I know also from all (?) periods.

Cotelle-Michel, Laurence : Les sarcophages en terre cuite: en Égypte et en Nubie de l'époque prédynastique à l'époque romaine. - Dijon : Faton, 2004. - ISBN : 9782878440621; 2878440625. - 336 p., figs [ills, maps].

Greetings, Lutz.

P.S.: The Online Egyptological Bibliography (OEB) provides for keyword "clay coffin" 51 entrys...
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3522
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
Well...

Robson ... really ... must this image be so big? Shocked Confused Cool

However, if we now imagine that a Pharaoh looked that way, he could hardly be regarded as ritually pure to perform the cult in the temple?

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ankhetmaatre
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 205
Location: District of Columbia, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Lutz. I didn't know that clay was used for coffins past the the early dynasties.
_________________
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3522
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhetmaatre wrote:
I didn't know that clay was used for coffins past the the early dynasties.

I also was not really aware of it. OEB, Keywords: "clay coffin" AND "pre- and early history"...

Hassan / Tassie / el-Senussi/ van Wetering / Sharp / Calcoen : A preliminary report on the pottery from the Protodynastic to Early Dynastic cemetery at Kafr Hassan Dawood, Wadi Tumilat, East Delta, Egypt. - In: Egypt at its origins 2 - Proceedings, Toulouse (France), 5th-8th September 2005. - Leuven : Peeters, 2008. - pp. 41-59.

Adams, Barbara : Elite graves at Hierakonpolis. - In: Aspects of early Egypt. - London : British Museum Press, 1996. - pp. 1 - 15.

Bakr, Mohamed : Excavations of Kufur Nigm. - In: Hommages à Jean Leclant. - Cairo : Institut français d’archéologie orientale, 1994. - pp. 9 - 17.

Midant-Reynes / Buchez / Crubézy / Janin : Le site prédynastique d'Adaïma: rapport de la cinquième campagne de fouille. - In: BIFAO 94. - 1994. - pp. 329 - 348.

Kroeper, Karla : Minshat Abu Omar - Pot burials occurring in the dynastic cemetery. - In: Bulletin de liaison du groupe international d'étude de la céramique égyptienne 18. - 1994. - pp. 19 - 32.

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3522
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second link, direct to PDF, seems not to work ... Try this one :

"Bulletin de liaison du groupe international d'étude de la céramique égyptienne"

and scroll down. "Bulletin de la céramique égyptienne XVIII" is online for download.

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eio
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings, all,

Earlier I wrote,

″But of course there remains the possibility that Sarid was already there before Seti I. Do we have some evidence of this?″

And now, I'm providing the answer to this question. Yes, indeed, there's plenty of evidence that Sarid was there already before Seti I. In fact, it was already there in the Early Bronze age II. This typically means ca 3000 BC.

According to this site, there were two strata,

http://daahl.ucsd.edu/DAAHL/SitesBrowseView.php?SiteNo=353202479&mode=browse&user=

It's a Multi-Period Stratified Site; 5 hectares in size; dating to EB II and EB III.

Based on this,

http://www.antiquities.org.il/about_eng.asp?Modul_id=14

There was much Egyptian colonization in the area, and plenty of similar stuff was already found before. The nearby Bet She‘an was a big Egyptian administrative centre.

″A cemetery dating to the reign of Seti was previously discovered at Bet Sheʽan, the center of the Egyptian rule in the Land of Israel, and similar clay coffins were exposed. Evidence of an Egyptian presence was detected in archaeological surveys conducted in the Jezreel Valley in the past″

And here's a detailed article on the subject,

En-Shadud: An Early Bronze I Farming Community in the Jezreel Valley / Braun Eliot ; Gibson Shimon. — [12 p.] In : Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (BASOR), ISSN 0003-097X. - (1984) vol.253 WINTER, p.29-40 http://www.jstor.org/stable/1356937

All the best,

Eio
_________________
The Past is Here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ankhetmaatre
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 205
Location: District of Columbia, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the updated link, Lutz. 51€ ($70) is more than I want to pay to download an article at the moment, though I'm pretty sure I can come by it another route now that I know the name, merci beaucoup. Wink

Very interesting links, Eio. Here is another along those lines: overview of the late Bronze Age (in Egypt in Palestine) - http://www.bu.edu/anep/LB.html

Of particular interest to the topic is the section entitled, "The Canaanites And Their Contributions: burial practices" this anthropoid coffin lid is very much like the one in the article above: http://www.bu.edu/anep/BethShanCoffinT227.gif
_________________
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3522
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhetmaatre wrote:
Thanks for the updated link, Lutz. 51€ ($70) is more than I want to pay to download an article at the moment, ...

Question Question Question The download is free (here in Europe). Just try klicking on "IF754_BCE18.pdf" in "Bulletin de liaison du groupe international d’étude de la céramique égyptienne 18 - IF754_BCE18.pdf (7.22 Mb)".

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ankhetmaatre
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 205
Location: District of Columbia, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL I was looking at 24! Which for some reason they wanted to charge me 51€ for when I went to download it... no doubt user error somewhere along the line since I had several articles open - May have clicked to wrong one.
_________________
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group