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Building Pharaoh's Chariot
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another work on the topic ...

Matei Traian Tichindelean : The Egyptian Chariotry During the New Kingdom (Liverpool University, Masters degree in Egyptology).

Greetings, Lutz.
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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As always thank you Lutz Very Happy
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Lutz !!!!!!!!!


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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, always happy to, girls. Smile
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting paper, thanks for the link.

There's an aspect of chariot use I've always been curious about - in many scenes the pharoah is depicted with the reins tied around his waist. I don't doubt that he's shown this way to emphasize his importance, but in many hunting scenes of nobles as well as royals (the the fan scene of Tutankhamen) the reins are also shown to be wrapped around the waist. I wonder if this is possible. It would certainly require great skill but it may not be impossible with a very well trained pair of horses. Perhaps similar to what's called "neck reining" today. But I suppose there's no way of knowing without spending time to become an expert charioteer, which would be pretty difficult in modern times since there are only a small handful to accurate replica chariots around. That sort of depiction really does give the ancient charioteers a real feeling of swagger though!
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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this interview on Emhotep Kathy Hanson, the horse trainer in the "Building Pharoah's Chariot was asked the same question.

http://emhotep.net/2013/10/20/periods/new-kingdom/the-new-kingdom-chariot-an-em-hotep-interview-with-kathy-hansen/

Quote:
Em Hotep: Another common depiction in Egyptian chariot art is the image of a single warrior or archer in the chariot without a separate driver. Do you think it would be possible for an archer or warrior to be able to drive the chariot with his hands free for wielding weapons, or was this artistic license?


Kathy Hansen: When a warrior or archer is shown without a separate driver the reins are shown knotted behind his back. We did not try this, but we probably could have because it would have taken very small shifts of the hips to steer the horses. What we discovered, and we expected this from Greek texts, was that when you shorten the inside horse and extend the outside horse you could turn the chariot on one wheel. Our driver said that he was able to turn them with just slight movements of his fingers.

So a single person driving with his hips would have been possible. Whether or not you would want to do it for very long is different; I’d rather have somebody else in the vehicle with me. The one thing you learn about dealing with horses is that whatever can go wrong will. So whether or not that was an artistic thing or whether they actually did hunting that way, who knows? But it would be possible to do.


From my own knowledge, as far as hunting goes, horses can be trained to pursue other animals, including large and dangerous animals with very little guidance. For example, modern roping and bulldogging horses are trained to put their riders into a good spot allowing the rider to focus on his throw or jump and native American buffalo hunting horses were prized for their ability to run down a buffalo and put their riders in arrow range once again will little guidance from the rider beyond selection of the animal to be shot.

Was it safe? Probably no. Was it an adrenaline rush? Absolutely.

As far doing this in war, with arrows and spears flying at them this would be more difficult but not impossible. Shooting a bow at a gallop on horseback in a battle, using your weight and legs to guide the horse certainly is possible. If it was as easy to guide the chariot horses as Hansen says, it could have been possible to pull off the strafing runs that the Egyptians seem to have specialized in.
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Nefertum
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naunacht wrote:


From my own knowledge, as far as hunting goes



Along the lines of hunting and controlling a horse, one might cite the 19th century Irish politician and MP, Arthur MacMorrogh Kavanagh, who was known as a ferocious hunter (riding to hounds) in his time.

Kavanagh was born with multiple birth defects -- he was essentially limbless, with only rudimentary stumps of arms and legs. He was taught to ride at the age of 3 (not a mistake) by being strapped into a specially constructed saddle. He controlled the reins either with his teeth or with a shoulder harness to which the reins were clipped.

Somewhat OT, but perhaps amusing, he was sent into exile on a Grand Tour, by his mother at the age of 17, when she discovered he had been conducting multiple dalliances with local farm girls. He travelled through Sweden, Russia, Asia Minor, the Middle East, Egypt, and ended up in India by his early 20s. His mother is reputed to have cut off his funds when he was 22 upon discovering he had taken up residence in an Indian harem. Left without income, he took up employment ... as a dispatch rider for the East India Company.
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, Naunacht! From my own experience trail riding, as well as watching dressage in France, I felt that such a thing could be possible. I would love to find something published about the actual handling techniques they discovered while working with that chariot. The young ancient Egyptian royals and nobles who showed an aptitude for it very likely began training at the martial arts by the time they were five or six, very much like in medieval times. Those who excelled (thinking of Tuthmose iii and his charioteers) must have been highly skilled, with a deep understanding of the nuances of horsemanship.

Does anyone know if there is anything published on military life and training or the elites? I may be projecting, but I'm seeing a picture of something very similar to the renaissance education of the nobles of Europe - or ancient Athens or Rome, for that matter: letters, histories and military training, with a large dose of ritualized religion on the side. It would seem the young pharaohs may have had very busy days.
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