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Need some opinions

 
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bcsoicey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:34 am    Post subject: Need some opinions Reply with quote

Hello everyone. I am a college student looking for some opinions on a few questions. I am doing this for my art history class, and any help would be great!

First - Why do some Egyptian coffins have more complex designs than other ones?

Second - Why do you think Egyptians followed such strict rules during the mummification process?

Thanks again for you help. I will post the Url where I am basing my questions from.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/online_tours/egypt/mummy_the_inside_story/mummy_the_inside_story.aspx
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

re coffins and texts, the later in egyptian history you get, ie after the new kingdom, it was becoming increasingly obvious that you could no longer stay permanently in your tomb. tomb robbery was rife and tomb decoration must have become less practical. so they started to put the decoration usually reserved for the walls of tombs onto the coffins.

mummies themselves sometimes had spells written on their bandages or shrouds.

coffins also changed shape throughout the millenia. the coffins from the end of the old kingdom i believe were box shaped, and by the time of the 17th dynasty had become anthropoid. i think by roman times, they had done away with coffins altogether.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some opinions Reply with quote

bcsoicey wrote:
... First - Why do some Egyptian coffins have more complex designs than other ones? ...

This depends for sure on the prevailing religious ideas in the formative period in detail and, of course, status and wealth of the client. Also regional differences in the decoration of choice can be observed in all periods of Egyptian history.

bcsoicey wrote:
... Second - Why do you think Egyptians followed such strict rules during the mummification process? ...

Because this was one of the most important prerequisites for a continued life in the afterlife world of ancient Egypt.



kylejustin wrote:
re coffins and texts, the later in egyptian history you get, ie after the new kingdom, it was becoming increasingly obvious that you could no longer stay permanently in your tomb. tomb robbery was rife and tomb decoration must have become less practical. so they started to put the decoration usually reserved for the walls of tombs onto the coffins. ...

This is certainly not tenable. The over and over coloured decorated and inlayed wooden coffins from the Middle Kingdom, for example, contradict this statement.

Greetings, Lutz.
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the middle kingdom was the transitional period for putting the texts on the walls. and when you think of it, the new kingdom does not usually have religious texts allover the coffins. the only ones i can think of are tutankhamun's? i cannot remember if his as texts int he inside though. but coffins in the new kingdom had inscriptions, not full blown texts on them. during the 3rd intermediate period, it bacame common to decorate the coffins with scenes fromt he book of the dead, religious texts and the deceased whorshipping the gods. it was also the period where reburials in older desecrated tombs seem to have become more common, and a period where less artifacts where buried with the deceased.
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bcsoicey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Hey thannks for your responses! I thought you all had valid points and good reasoning behind your answers.

Again I appreciate the responses
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylejustin wrote:
i think the middle kingdom was the transitional period for putting the texts on the walls. ...

Also this statement can`t be proven. The richly decorated tombs of the 11th and early 12th Dynasty at Beni Hassan, for example, gradually replaced by simpler funerals with undecorated walls and decorated coffins. The earliest antropoid coffins and examples of spells from the "Book of the Death" appear in the middle / end of 12th Dynasty.

kylejustin wrote:
... and when you think of it, the new kingdom does not usually have religious texts allover the coffins. ...

It appears a new element: the so-called "Book of the Dead" written on a papyrus role, given in the coffin directly or as part of the tomb goods.

kylejustin wrote:
... 3rd intermediate period ... it was also the period where reburials in older desecrated tombs seem to have become more common, and a period where less artifacts ...

The use of older tombs for reburial or as part of a new tomb is assigned probably from the OK (for example, Djoser at Saqqara) and it can be shown for the entire Egyptian history. One example among many others from the NK: the tomb of Horemheb at Saqqara, built on the site of a mastaba from the OK. The tomb shaft from the OK was integrated into the new system, the OK stone sarcophagus is still in situ.

Greetings, Lutz.
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im thinking about the coffins from the third intermediate period lutz. they are heavily decorated with funerary textx, and many mummies discovered from that period are in usurped tombs. like the recent kv 64? is that the number for the new tomb?
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nehaali
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I'm not trying to start a relationship column for the best come-on lines to pick up mummies. I've never seen one hanging out at a bar, anyway. I suppose something like this might work: "You're aged and yellowed wrappings look lovely in this dim light, and you smell terrific." But that's beside the point.

I've spent quite a lot of time trying to train myself in the typing and dating of coffins and mummies by their appearance. Some books have been very helpful, including Dodson and Ikram (1998), Dodson and Manley (2010), and of course John Taylor's wonderfully detailed chapter on coffins dating to Dynasty 22-Dynasty 26 in The Theban Necropolis: Past, Present, and Future (2003).

Where I've come up short is in typing and dating coffins from the Ptolemaic Period. Most books I've examined present only cursory information on them. The Ptolemies ruled for 300 years, so I have to imagine some degree of study has gone into coffins and mummies of this period. I've heard Egyptologists say that this or that mummy comes from early in the Ptolemaic Period, but I'm left wondering how they know that.

Any sources out there? I'd welcome any papers or articles people might know about. My German has atrophied horribly and my French was never any good to begin with, so if possible I would prefer sources in English.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Wink
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you know the "Shire Egyptology" series. The individual volumes offer compact-depth information on individual topics. Included is also an extensive bibliography for further reading...

Judith A. Corbelli : The Art of Death in Graeco-Roman Egypt. - [Shire Egyptology 28]. - Princes Risborough : Shire Publications, 2006. - ISBN : 9780747806479; 0747806470. - 80 p., figs [ills, maps]

John H. Taylor : Egyptian Coffins. - [Shire Egyptology 11]. - Princes Risborough : Shire Publications, 1989. - ISBN : 0852639775. - 68 p., 53 figs [ills, map, plan]

Christina Riggs : Archaism and Artistic Sources in Roman Egypt - The Coffins of the Soter Family and the Temple of Deir el-Medina. - In: Bulletin de l'Institut Français d'Archéologie Orientale - BIFAO 106. - 2006. - pp. 315 - 332

Christina Riggs : The Beautiful Burial in Roman Egypt - Art, Identity, and Funerary Religion. - [Oxford Studies in Ancient Culture and Representation]. - Oxford : Oxford University Press, 2005. - ISBN : 9780199276653; 019927665X. - XXI, 334 p., [8] p. of plates, ills [some colour], map

Mark Smith : Dating Anthropoid Mummy Cases from Akhmim - The Evidence of the Demotic Inscriptions. - In: Portraits and Masks - Burial Customs in Roman Egypt. - London : British Museum Press, 1997. - pp. 66 - 71, 2 tables, 6 plates

H. M. Stewart : Mummy-Cases and Inscribed Funerary Cones in the Petrie Collection. - Warminster : Aris & Phillips / Oak Park, Bolchazy-Carducci, 1986. - IX, 84 p., 25 pl
Quote:
OEB: "The first part of this catalogue contains the publication of the mummy cases and related objects (funerary masks, cartonnages, shabti boxes) in the Petrie Collection. Most material dates from the late N.K. through the Ptolemaic Period, although a few documents are from the M.K. Each object is summarily described and published either in line-drawing or photograph. Index to this part on p. 19-20. ..."

I. E. S. Edwards : A Handbook to the Egyptian Mummies and Coffins Exhibited in the British Museum. - London : British Museum, 1938. - VIII, 70 p., 31 pl.


German, however, thematically exactly what you are looking...

Ruth Brech : Spätägyptische Särge aus Achmim - Eine Typologische und Chronologische Studie. - [Aegyptiaca Hamburgensia 3]. - Gladbeck : PeWe-Verlag, 2008. - ISBN : 9783935012034. - 380 p., 13 pl., mainly in colour [ills].

Greetings, Lutz.
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Iker
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nehaali wrote:
"You're aged and yellowed wrappings look lovely in this dim light, and you smell terrific."


This reminds me that the wrappings are the hair locks of Nephthys "Loose thy bandages! They are not bandages, they are the locks of Nephthys," (p. 97) and the sweet fragrance of the living in the other world:

""The fire is laid, the fire shines;
The incense is laid on the fire, the incense shines.
Thy fragrance comes to king Unis, O Incense;
The fragrance of king Unis comes to thee, O Incense.
Your fragrance comes to king Unis, O ye gods;
The fragrance of king Unis comes to you, O ye gods.
King Unis is with you, ye gods;
Ye are with king Unis, ye gods.
King Unis lives with you, ye gods;
Ye live with king Unis, ye gods.
King Unis loves you, ye gods;
Love ye him, ye gods." (p. 126)


"Development of Religion and Thought in Ancient Egypt", by James Henry Breasted

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