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Request of help on a 5 columns translation

 
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Medjay Archer
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:44 am    Post subject: Request of help on a 5 columns translation Reply with quote

Hi,
I wished to get the information by myself, but it seems there aren't many avenues to it.
The scarab CG 37,399 of Necho II was published in "Scarab-shaped Seals" by Percy Newberry for the Catalogue Générale, but funnily enough, the concerned description is part of the missing pages. Fortunately, the pertinent plate was spared.

Since it is a small inscription held within a scarab, a personal translation is quite feasible as most of the content is the typical royal idiomatic expressions.

Here is the inscription of the scarab hereunder:


Here's my take for what I could translate from right to left:

1) Living Horus (with) a knowledgeable heart, Lord of the Two-Lands, true of voice
2) Golden Horus, beloved of gods, Wehemibre,
3) Son-of-Rê, Nekau (Necho), ????
4) given life, like Rê, forever, ?
5) [something about smiting foreign countries???]
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Medjay Archer
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, also, I don't understand the reason why there is a "contradiction" of the hieroglyphic orientation. Living things start out looking at the left and then, at the middle, they look at the right.

Anything about that or am I imagining peculiarities where there aren't?
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Aset
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the royal names, titles and royal epithets of Necho II.



1 - nsw-bj.tj (wHm-jb-Ra)|
The king of Upper and Lower Egypt: Wehem-ib-re (= Throne name)

2 - sA-Ra (n kA.w)|
Son of Re: Nekau / Necho) (= Personal name / birth name)

3 - bjk-nbw mrj-nTr.w
Golden Horus: beloved of gods (= Gold Horus Name)

4 - anx Hr sja-jb nsw-bjtj nb.ty mAa-xrw
Live Horus: perceptive (= Horus name), King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Two Ladies: The Triumphant (= Nebty name)

5 - sA-Ra (n-kA.w)| mr Nj.t
Son of Re: Nekau / Necho, beloved of Neith
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Tilgner wrote:
The scarab CG 37399 was read by Karl Jansen-Winkeln, Inschriften der Spätzeit, Teil IV: Die 26. Dynastie, Band 1: Psametik I. - Psametik III., Wiesbaden, 2014, p. 285 (no. 67) :



My translation of col. 4 (end) - 5:

smA.n=k xAs.wt nb(.wt) : "you have killed all foreign peoples".

smA "to kill", especially "to kill foreign peoples" (as said from the king from dyn. 19 onward), Wb. IV, 122.11-12. xAs.t "foreign country" also "thought of inhabitants of a foreign country", Wb. III, 235.13-14.

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Medjay Archer
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:45 am    Post subject: Conclusion Reply with quote

So,
thanks to Aset, Lutz & Tilgner for their precious help in the matter.
So, to close the subject being resolved, I made this little summary.


I've finally got the term the specialists use to express the "incoherence" of the hieroglyphic orientation: the retrograde writing.
As Lutz already told twice, the concept of order within royal cartouches is highly debated and no consensus was taken. It is the same for retrograde writing. There are various reasons for it and these are not result of scribal errors. They are intended.

The Orientation of Hieroglyphs - Part #1 Reversals by Henry Fischer covers best the subject.
(http://www.metmuseum.org/research/metpublications/The_Orientation_of_Hieroglyphs_Part_1_Reversals)

There are proposed reasons such as:

Symmetry
Opposition (e.g. Horus vs Seth)
Aesthetic placements
Setting what was said by the god or individual on the side (just like bubbles in modern comics).

Reversals of the orientation is commonly seen in vertical displays and royal protocols.

Looking at what Aset started, I'm getting curious of her choices of colored selection. Indeed, she chose to connect the titularies along their own categories.

Also, despite being highly speculative, we see Neith and Hathor surrounding king Necho II. These goddesses are set in opposition configuration. That might explain why Necho II's prenomen and Throne name are also oriented in opposition. Symmetry (=aesthetic consideration) can also be the reason. Then, by transitivity, the orientation is kept in the main text, explaining the sudden reversal despite the reading direction is kept from right to left.

Also, I notice the Two Ladies name seems to be intrusive and so also is the Golden Horus. Perhaps, that is a consideration from the artisan who made the scarab where he knew he couldn't fit the Two Ladies entirely on the extreme right.

Again, it's all speculations. I have no experts to back my words up.


Some additional notes:


    -I suppose those figures at the bottom are bounded foreign prisoners crushed by the mighty force of the king.

    -The summoning of Neith is quite pertinent since she's a goddess of war. Hence, Necho II is beloved by her because he does what she likes.

    -I'm guessing the various translations of "maa kheru", which are "Triumphant", "True of Voice" or "justified" all mean "the king has passed the 42 Negative Confessions and the test of the heart weigh, his heart pure and just, he is filled with Ma'at and Osiris welcomes him in the afterlife". Hence his voice states truths and is Triumphant in the afterlife.

    -The heart was viewed as the center of mind by the Ancients. Hence, "perceptive of the heart" is actually "perceptive minded" in meaning.

    -Does the difference between the simple Horus and Golden Horus is that first means the name of the king as incarnation of the living horus and the second as being a god (golden horus=? golden skin of the gods)?

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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Conclusion Reply with quote

Medjay Archer wrote:
... The summoning of Neith is quite pertinent since she's a goddess of war. Hence, Necho II is beloved by her because he does what she likes. ...

The 26th Dynasty, installed by the Assyrians, comes from Sais. This was the main place of worship of the goddess Neith. Her temple there is still known from Early Dynastic documents (see among others, finds from the Royal Tombs in Abydos).

The addition "Beloved of Neith" follows the Sa-Ra or birthname, the only one from the officially five name titulary, the king still had before he climbed the throne. This points to me clear in direction personal / family-dynastic reasons.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Medjay Archer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Aset

Think

I'm still really curious of your reason behind the reading order.
Will you tell me?
Very Happy
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Kmt is not a racial term nor a reference to the black silt deposited on the Nile valley, but an expression of "standing on place wherein food is plenty, allowing to stop moving like the neighbouring nomads". -Asar Imhotep
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