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Tut's Chariot Theory
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im wrong there u happy. All of this speculation because I dont know what happpened to Tut and I dont know who wrote the letter agai . n just speculation. I got bored okay during the holiday break. I tend to ask simple questions alot.


One will thing that I will not detest on is my story. I did not fantasize this and to be honest I dont know what those visions were but i do know that came to me a second time for a reason and like Dorothy Eady before me, I stick to my story. And don't dare test my intellect and my integrity.

Eady is the reason why I stand tall with my story she did and i will to. True I have no evidence for my claims on paper but that's what im waiting for heck some has already been revealed like the younger lady

Eady was right Seti tried his hardest to keep knowledge of this family to a minimum that is thats why there is so little to go on. Again I don't know what happened im sitting in a boat in the middle the water with eveyone else
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neseret
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frater0082 wrote:
Im wrong there u happy. All of this speculation because I dont know what happpened to Tut and I dont know who wrote the letter agai . n just speculation. I got bored okay during the holiday break. I tend to ask simple questions alot.


To my mind, you would spend time better asking for references so you could read proper works on the subject rather than speculate wildly and expect everyone to put up with when even minimal research would tell you better information.

Frater0082 wrote:
One will thing that I will not detest on is my story. I did not fantasize this and to be honest I dont know what those visions were but i do know that came to me a second time for a reason and like Dorothy Eady before me, I stick to my story. And don't dare test my intellect and my integrity.


Wouldn't think of questioning either.
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are trying to say im piggy backing off of someone's theories u are dead wrong. Let me makes this clear to u none of these posts has anything to with my story except the latest one. Some of my earlier post were from the times when I was as u say ignorant to the Amarna gene pool. Yeah even later on I still asked dumb questions but I was trying not to get bashed again like when I first broke out with my story

As for my latest speculation:

Tut's death is a mystery. I dont know if he was murdered but im wondering what if he was shot in the heart by an arrow while riding(perhaps by accident or maybe in battle like everyone suggests) which is why his heart isnt there in his body. This would coincide with the Chairot Accident Theory if he was injured in battle. What would the king do with a broken heart? They must have wondered and probably removed it. (Again just speculation)
.

Smenkhare who knows who he could be. But I will say he was half Tut age upon his ascention (coming from my story) perhaps 18

KV35 being Nefertiti I stand by Joann Fletcher. the DNA results could be showing both sides of the pool. She could have been Akhenaten's cousin slash sister who was Nebetah. It makes perfect since that he did because in this family they made sure that thier bloodline remained tight beginning with Tiye and Amenhotep 3

When that day comes when more evidence is found to prove me otherwise I rest my case.
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Thieuke
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: KV35 YL Reply with quote

Joan Fletcher based her theory that KV35YL was Nefertiti on things like the bold head, pierced ears and the proximity of a Nubian style wig. She did not have any dna information. At present there are rather unlikely scenario's where KV35YL could be Nefertiti, but it's likelier she is not.

KV35YL probably was one of the daughters of Amenhotep III with his Great Royal Wife Tiye. Her DNA fits that of the mother of Tutanchamun with what most likely was her brother. Who that brother was is unclear. For me that could still very much be Smenchkare.

Achnaten being succeeded by his co-ruler Neferneferuaten (=Nefertiti), her successor is Smenchkare, the youngest son of AIII and Tiye. His first wife was a sister KV35YL and with her he had Tut. After her (violent?) death he remarried his niece Meritaten and succeeded his sister- and mother-in-law Nefertiti. His short reign left his minor son Tut as the only heir to succeed.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frater0082 wrote:
If you are trying to say im piggy backing off of someone's theories u are dead wrong. Let me makes this clear to u none of these posts has anything to with my story except the latest one. Some of my earlier post were from the times when I was as u say ignorant to the Amarna gene pool. Yeah even later on I still asked dumb questions but I was trying not to get bashed again like when I first broke out with my story


Dorothy Eady was an archaeological artist for such notable Egyptian Antiquities services archaeologists as Selim Hassan (who excavated the Sphinx area before Hawass came along (1949)) and Abdul Hamid Zayed (1963), who excavated and restored the Temple of Seti I at Abydos. At the time, she was listed in excavation staff records as 'Bulbul el Meguid,' as she was married to an Egyptian surnamed Meguid, with whom she had a child she named 'Sety.' It is for this reason she is called "Omm Sety," which means "mother of Sety."

Her story as a reincarnated novice priestess during the time of the operation of the Seti I temple does not appear around Eady until Cott's book was written in 1987, some 6 years after her death. Before that, Eady wrote very interesting and researched archaeological treatises on the restoration of the Seti I temple, so one seriously has to wonder how much of this story is actually hers. I know of some Egyptologists who met Eady before she died, and they don't recall her ever speaking of reincarnation at any time.

So, if you don't want to be accused of "piggy-backing" on Eady's reputation, then I would suggest quit mentioning her. It's very likely the reincarnation story is a flourish added by Cott, or possibly even a teasing story from Eady - it's a common prank of Egyptians or of people who live in Egypt for a long time to claim they are "reincarnations" of ancient people (Hawass, for example, has teasingly claimed (on record in a film) that he's the reincarnation of Khufu).

Frater0082 wrote:
As for my latest speculation:

Tut's death is a mystery. I dont know if he was murdered but im wondering what if he was shot in the heart by an arrow while riding(perhaps by accident or maybe in battle like everyone suggests) which is why his heart isnt there in his body. This would coincide with the Chairot Accident Theory if he was injured in battle. What would the king do with a broken heart? They must have wondered and probably removed it. (Again just speculation).


The fact that the sternum is missing and the cut ribs imply that an impact injury to the chest occurred, though the chariot could do this damage without any arrow being involved. The first effect of such an injury would be obstruction of breathing, so it is more likely that getting to the king's lungs to relieve pressure for breathing was the priority for Egyptian physicians. It is possible that damage to the heart occurred as well. The only mystery to Egyptologists is why the heart was not replaced into the body during embalmment (the lungs were in canopic jars, after all), which may be speculated that it was too damaged to embalm. This may explain why an onyx heart scarab was put in its place.

Frater0082 wrote:
Smenkhkare who knows who he could be. But I will say he was half Tut age upon his ascention (coming from my story) perhaps 18


Tutankhamun only was 18 (at most) at his death, so I cannot understand your statement. What is certain is that Smenkhkare ruled before Tutankhamun, for as much as 2 years. If KV 55 is Smenkhkare, he would have been no more than 21 years old at his ascension, and possible as young as 18 years old. At the time of Smenkhkare's ascension, assuming we have the ruling order correct, Tutankhamun would have been about 6-7 years old.

Frater0082 wrote:
KV35 being Nefertiti I stand by Joann Fletcher. the DNA results could be showing both sides of the pool. She could have been Akhenaten's cousin slash sister who was Nebetah. It makes perfect since that he did because in this family they made sure that thier bloodline remained tight beginning with Tiye and Amenhotep 3

When that day comes when more evidence is found to prove me otherwise I rest my case.


Sadly, this is not the way it works: you have to have proof to claim that something definitely IS the case: otherwise, you have speculation without any proof.

KV 35 YL cannot be Nefertiti for at least 2 reasons. Firstly, the children of Nefertiti and Akhenaten would show different DNA from Tiye and Amenhotep. Mummy KV 21A, a mummy thought possibly to be Ankhsenamun, shows DNA tags not found in the Amenhotep/Tiye and KV 35YL group, which is probably DNA supplied by Nefertiti (Hawass, Gad, et al 2010). So, genetically speaking, Nefertiti introduced new DNA (called mtDNA) through her daughters. So, if Mummy KV 21A is Ankhsenamun, which is by no means certain, she is not related to KV 35YL, but is a daughter of Akhenaten (where the Amenhotep III and Tiye DNA exhibit) and another female, who was probably Nefertiti, as Ankhsenamun is listed as a "daughter of the (queen's) body."

Secondly, the skeleton of KV 35YL does not show evidence of multiple births, of which Nefertiti is known to have had 6 daughters. In fact, the pelvis shows such little evidence of birth, one modern examination had concluded the female was nulliparous (having never given birth). This can be the case also if the female has given birth once. Since the pelvis shows changes with each successive pregnancy, this argues against the KV 35 YL mummy being Nefertiti.

Finally, as an aside, had Nefertiti been a daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye, she would have capitalised upon this fact by using her royal relationship titles of /sAt nsw/, "daughter of the king," and her familial relationship with Akhenaten as /snt nsw/, "sister of the king," which are titles that not only show familial relationships, but as Troy (1986) has shown, enhances a royal female's status in a king's harem. Nefertiti claims no relationship titles with Amenhotep III and her only relationship title with Akhenaten is as his /Hmt nsw wrt/ and /Hmt nsw/, "Great Royal Wife" and "king's wife."

Reference:

Hassan, S. 1949. The Sphinx: Its History in the Light of Recent Excavations. Cairo: Government Press.

Hawass, Z., Y. Z. Gad, et al. 2010. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun’s Family. Journal of the American medical Association 303/7: 638-647.

______________________. 2010. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun’s Family. (eSupplement). Journal of the American medical Association 303/7: 1-12.

Omm Sety/Eady, D. and H. el Zeini 1981. Abydos: Holy City of Ancient Egypt. Los Angeles: L L Company.

Troy, L. 1986. Patterns of Queenship: in ancient Egyptian myth and history. BOREAS 14. Uppsala: ACTA Universitatis Upsaliensis.

Zayed, A. H. 1963. Abydos. Cairo: Government Printing Office.
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me make this clear to you again. I never ever heard of Ohm Sety enfore my experience NEVER! as well as the Armarnas. I knew little of Egypt I knew only of Ramses II from the bible stories and King Tut everyone else ive learned about trying to find evidence that this entire this real. I found many startling evidence that I needed not to further.

These were no fantasies because all my fantasies are always xxx. Why would I be thinking about making love to a dead guy who doez that? Or even in ancient Egypt.


I know what I saw and I know what u want to know, but I do not know what happened to Tut, Smenk, or what happened during Tut's reign because I was not there.

Im not here to claim that I was a famous person because I wasnt In the first place. I was here to tell a story that I believed is meant to be told. But I respect that no one wants to listen so I leave it be.

As for you saying I'm trying to ride on Eady's rep your wrong. She is the reason why i went forward with this story. She's my idol
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neseret
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frater0082 wrote:
I know what I saw and I know what u want to know, but I do not know what happened to Tut, Smenk, or what happened during Tut's reign because I was not there.

Im not here to claim that I was a famous person because I wasnt In the first place. I was here to tell a story that I believed is meant to be told. But I respect that no one wants to listen so I leave it be.


I think you misinterpret what Egyptian Dreams is about, then. This forum, as I understand it, is to discuss issues concerning ancient Egypt in a factual and researched manner. As long as I have been here, which is over 5 years, issues of 'dreams' and 'visions' and the like have never been allowed on this forum as "proof" of any claim.

If you have such dreams and visions, then that is your experience, but by your own admission, you don't have a clue if they are true. If so, then why continue to submit your own unfounded claims as if they were?

I might think, for example, based upon the research and scholarly articles written on the subject, that I have an opinion as to what happened to the Amarna royals, but by no means would I submit that opinion as fact. No purpose is served if I did so as I would not have any factual proof from the archaeology or texts, which in Egyptology, is basically all the proof we can rely upon for factual information. I can speculate, but I will always make it clear why I think it's the case, what factual evidence points to such a conclusion, and still I must also note it's a speculation.

Frater0082 wrote:
As for you saying I'm trying to ride on Eady's rep your wrong. She is the reason why i went forward with this story. She's my idol


Yet you continue to invoke her as if by doing so that gives your story/ies any authority: it doesn't.

Sadly, Cott's book has ignored the good archaeological work that Eady actually did during her life, and made her a favourite of the paranormal crowd by emphasising the idea she believed in reincarnation as a major force in her life (yet her own work does not indicate such beliefs). The work she did has been obscured by this association, and to continue to identify your dreams and visions as OK because you think Eady had them as well dishonours her real contributions to the field of Egyptian archaeology, IMO.
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because it was to me. I never felt so much pain, cry so much tears in my life about a dream. I don't even have dreams about the past im a futuristic person. I never knew a love like that existed between two men its still unbelievable and unmatchable no one to this very day come as close to Seti.

My posts "My Life Before" and In "What Happened to Meritaten" are my only direct post everything else beforehand was questions that at the time, I knew little of. Afterwards I was pondering around
my speculation of what I don't know.

(Sighs) I will do what is best, I will leave.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
As long as I have been here, which is over 5 years, issues of 'dreams' and 'visions' and the like have never been allowed on this forum as "proof" of any claim.
Neseret is correct. They are (barely) tolerated in the General Discussion forum but are not welcome in the Ancient Egypt forums.
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand Kevin im sorry.
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Frater0082
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The death of Tutankhamen will probably remain a mystery even after we all are long gone and as for what happened to his family I will not say that there won't be any evidence as to what happened in Amarna. The pieces are there trust me.

I have no doubt that something will sprang up in the near future.

My personal wishes is that Tutankaten will be able to rest in peace in his tomb once and for all. For this mystery to be solved, but only time will tell when this would happen.
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just received a link to this very interesting article by Salima Ikram: Tutankhamen's Missing Ribs, KMT 18

https://www.academia.edu/27388394/Tutankhamuns_Missing_Ribs_KMT_18.1.pdf

Dr Ikram brings up the excellent point that in Harry Buton's photo of the mummy just before reinterment the rib cage and sternum were intact and covered by a beaded collar. She asserts that the burial was disturbed, most likely during WWII, and the robbers cut away the front of the thorax. So the hypothesis of the traumatic injuries to the chest of the king can be proved inaccurate.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The theory about a plunder during or shortly after the end of the second world war is not new. It has too been suspected, in this occasion was the thorax badly damaged...

See for example

Jo Marchant : The Shadow King - The Bizarre Afterlife of King Tut`s Mummy. - Boston : Da Capo Press, 2013. - 288 p. - Page 97 ff.

Greetings, Lutz.
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