Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Where to find origina inscription?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Art and Literature
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lost Pharaoh
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 312
Location: Serbia, Belgrade

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Where to find origina inscription? Reply with quote

I found that this sentence is from tomb of Tutankhamen:

"To speak the name of the dead is to make them live again, and restores the breath of life to him who has vanished."


Does any body know where I can find original hieroglyphic inscription?
_________________
"To speak the names of the dead is to make them live again."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3623
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Google-Search gave the reference : "Egyptian tomb inscription, cited in Noblecourt and Kenett 1963: 625". This meant to be...

Christiane Desroches-Noblecourt : Tutankhamen - Life and Death of a Pharaoh. - [75 colour photographs by F. L. Kenett]. - London : The Connoisseur and Michael Joseph, 1963. - 312 p., 197 fig. [9 unnumbered], 75 ill. in colour on 56 pl., 5 plans [= 4 fig.; one = p. 10], 4 maps [= 4 fig.] :

Quote:
OEB 9997 (AEB 1963.0126) :

In the same year that the three volumes by Carter and Mace were republished (New York, Cooper Square Publishers, Inc.) the present book appeared. It resulted from a cooperation well known already from AEB 60529.

In her first chapter the author tells about the discoverers. Then she describes Thebes and its west bank (chapter 2), and the tomb together with its discovery (ch. 3). The historical setting of Tutankhamon's reign is the subject of chapters 4-6. Ch. 7 deals with his death and burial, 8 with funerary symbolism. The final chapter (9) discusses what happened after the king died.

Following a "list of principal characters" (p. 290-293) A. Shoukry presents notes on the colour plates (p. 294-305). These masterpieces of photography were made after removal of the objects from their museum cases.

The book translated by Claude ends with a bibliography (p. 306-307), a list of monochrome illustrations (308-309) and an index (310-312). Preface by Sarwat Okasha (9).

One of the few Tutankhamun/KV 62 biographies/descriptions that I do not have, as I do not like the writing style and the nationalist attitudes of this lady.

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3623
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Tilgner via e-mail on 22nd of February, 2017 ...

Quote:
The sentence "To speak the name of the dead is to make them live again, and restores the breath of life to him who has vanished" is often cited in the Internet, but no references are given for it. It is called an Egyptian proverb, an expression of Egyptian belief or a citation from the Book of the Dead (however, no spell no. is given).

Lutz has found the source of this quotation (or nearly), namely: Christiane Desroches-Noblecourt, Tutankhamen, 1963 [I have the paperback edition of 1978]. She writes on pp. 27-28 that Carter and Carnaveron rescued Tutankhamun from the fate of being forgotten making his name "live again". She mentions "funerary inscriptions" as a source for the statement, but they are not from Tutankhamun's tomb.





Though the wish of the dead that his name may be pronounced can be found on many inscriptions throughout the ages ("appeal to the living" or the Htp-dj-nsw-formula) the exact wording of this statement seems to be of the Late Period. One example can be found on a statue ÄM 17700 of the Neues Museum (Berlin), which is dated to the time of Psametik I (26th dyn.). Another example is in the tomb of Petosiris (early Ptolemaic Period): inscription 81 and 65, the latter is rather similar to the Berlin inscription. As there is still another statement of this kind, it is indeed seen as a proverb. The Petosiris statement: sanx s dm(.w) rn=f "A man will live (when) his name is pronounced." sounds rather similar to Desroches-Noblecourt's obviously free translation: "To speak the name of the dead is to make them live again." (The writing of dm with U15 tm in the Late Period is mentioned in the Wörterbuch, vol. V, p. 449.) - I did not make a search for the second part of the sentence.





Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lost Pharaoh
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 312
Location: Serbia, Belgrade

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Lutz for your effort, and your friend for answer!

Very interesting situation and I am a bit dissappointed, because some thing are written, than shared (over internet) and became popular. And when you start to digging up to find a source and original, you found that that was a some kind of free interpretation and making up the facts. So as I understand that that woman constructed the proverb "from Tutankhamen tomb", from other sources and tombs, because that inscription does not exist in reallity. What a pitty...

For somehow, it reminds me on the that famous inscription "The death will come on the swift wings to those who disturb sleep of the pharaoh." As I remember, this is also the fake? Am I right?

P.S. Is there any possibility to find hieroglyphic insciption of the second part of fake sentence (and restores the breath of life to him who has vanished.)?
_________________
"To speak the names of the dead is to make them live again."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Aset
Priest
Priest


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found an example from the 19th dynasty:



anx z dm.tw rn =f
A man whose name is pronounced, will live.

Source (TLA): pTurin 1993, The Legend of Isis and Re, 3.11

Aset
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Art and Literature All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group