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Praying in secret to Amun-Ra during Akhenaten time

 
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Praying in secret to Amun-Ra during Akhenaten time Reply with quote

One of my favorite documentary about Ancient Egypt are Planet Egypt (Episodes 1-4). In the Episode 3 - Temples of Power, they are talking about Akhenaten, and in one scene, they said that priests of Amun-Ra was hiding the statues of Amun-Ra, and then they recite the prayer as an example (describing the fear of priests because of Akhenaten forbidden old religion). The prayer is:

"Look up on us, Amun-Ra. You were here when there was nothing and you will be here for eternity. Banish our fear!"


Does any body know where I can find the original hieroglyphic inscription of this?

Thank you in advance.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Tigner wrote:
This is a Hieratic graffito of Pawah from the tomb of Pere (pA-jrj) (TT 139). It was published with hieroglyphic transcription by Alan H. Gardiner, The Graffito from the Tomb of Pere, in: JEA 14, 10-11 (1928) and pls. V-VI. This volume is available in the Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.70987

A more recent discussion (in English) is by Jan Assmann, Ocular Desire in a Time of Darkness. Urban Festivals and Divine Visibility in Ancient Egypt, in: Aharon R.E. Agus, Jan Assmann (eds.), Ocular Desire. Sehnsucht des Auges, Yearbook of Religious Anthropology / Jahrbuch für Religiöse Anthropologie, vol. 1, pp. 13-29 (1994)

http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/Assmann_Ocular_Desire.pdf

The quote is a combination of verses 26-28 and 38 of Assmann's translation:

"Turn your face toward us, o lord of eternity,
You were here before 'they' arose,
You will be here when 'they' are gone.
(...)
Dispell fear (give joy into the heart(s) of men)"

These lines correspond with lines 19-20 and 26-27 of the Hieroglyphic text in plate VI.



There are a few grammatical peculiarities, as the text is written in Late Egyptian, not Middle Egyptian.

In my opinion Assmann's translation is more accurate. One should add that the interpretation is still being discussed. For example Joachim Friedrich Quack:

http://www.academicroom.com/article/echnaton%3A-agyptens-falscher-prophet

"The famous graffito of Pawah (pp. 187-89) is generally interpreted as moving testimony to the persecution of the cult of Amun. On a closer look, however, we should point out that most, if not all of its phraseology can be paralleled from Ramessid texts of 'personal piety.' Only the fact that we know of a real persecution of Amun during the Amarna age makes us read more into this particular graffito than into many similar texts. The dissent voiced by D. Kessler, SAK 25 (1998): 176-88, against the dominant theory should be given more serious consideration, at least in regard to the rejection of the 'persecution theory.' In any case, the text was composed in year 3 of Semenekhkare [note by Lutz : better "Neferneferuaton", because this name appears in the graffito and not Semenkhkara] when a campaign of persecution against the cult of Amun was certainly no longer being conducted."

Quack is citing: Dieter Kessler, Dissidentenliteratur oder kultischer Hintergrund? Teil 1: Überlegungen zum Tura-Hymnus und zum Hymnus in TT 139, in: SAK 25, 161-188 (1998)

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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Lutz for this great explanation, and also thanks to your friend.
So, as I can see, this prayer was from latter time as remembrance to the period of when Amun is persecuted. Probably, they could not write such prayers during Akhenaten's time, because it can get them into trouble.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joachim Friedrich Quack : Review Echnaton - Ägyptens Falscher Prophet by Nicholas Reeves. - In: JAOS 124-2. - 2004. - pp. 355 - 357 :
Quote:
... The famous graffito of Pawah (pp. 187-89) is generally interpreted as moving testimony to the persecution of the cult of Amun. On a closer look, however, we should point out that most, if not all of its phraseology can be paralleled from Ramessid texts of "personal piety." Only the fact that we know of a real persecution of Amun during the Amarna age makes us read more into this particular graffito than into many similar texts ...

I can only join this statement. The text alone does not show in any way or any kind a persecution of the god Amun or his "followers".

The text "only" proofs that the immediate successor of Akhenaten, Ankhkheperura Neferneferuaten, had built a "House for Million of Years" in the traditional form (consecrated to the cult of the god Amun and that of the King) in Thebes. Since to this temple in the 18th Dynasty belonged also a kings tomb (in the Valley of the Kings) can be assumed, that also this was at least planned, if not begun ...

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I suppose that in every documentary about Egypt they showing the story more "movie like" to be more interesting and closer to the general public.

One question pop in to my mind - if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove excess of posts Admin, I don't know what happened... Sad
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost Pharaoh wrote:
... if Tutankamun banish the Akhenaten legacy (which is represented in his reformation stelas) and accept Amun again, why he didn't appear in the, for example, in Abydos King List? I understand why Akhenaten didn't....

In the end, this can only be answered by Sethy I. ... Idea

But there are indications that the attitude of king Haremhab towards Tutankhamun (or his family?) seems to have changed in the course of his reign.

On site of the Karnak-Temple, many blocks are stored under the open sky (found reused in other buildings from later times, pylons etc.). Among them there is a number of blocks from two bigger buildings that date from the time of Tutankhamun / Aja. The recognizable planned modification of the cartouches on some of these blocks admits the conclusion, that king Haremhab would at first want to extinguish only the memory of king Aja :



(Marianne Eaton-Krauss : Tutankhamun at Karnak. - In: MDAIK 44. - 1988. - pp. 1 - 11.)

Greetings, Lutz.
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