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Marc Gabolde Looks on DNA Test of Tutankhamuns Family...
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herper
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawass would never allow further testing if it risked 'proof' of his theories being overturned. Not a very scientific way of doing things. As if mummy identification isn't hard enough. Its a shame multiple tests where not done at different sights at the same time.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

herper wrote:
Hawass would never allow further testing if it risked 'proof' of his theories being overturned. ...

Hawass is no longer in a position in this regard anyone something to allow or prohibit. And one can only hope that this continues to be so...

However, it probably makes little sense new test to perform, if they also reach even just a degree of decryption of aDNA, that secure statements (mother- / fatherhood) just do not make possible?

Greetings, Lutz.
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Thieuke
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: further testing wanted Reply with quote

further DNA testing is wanted. It could clear things up a little better. Also the start of the 18th dynasty and the line of Hatshepsut's parents would be interesting to clear up.
Still DNA can be explained in various ways. Where Hawass and his team saw Achnaten and his sister as Tut's parents based on the DNA evidence others have show that the same DNA could be referring to a brother of Achnaten (Smenkhkare?) and a daughter of Achnaten and a woman related to his grandmother Thuya other than through his mother Tiye (probably Nefertiti being a female line relative of her mother-in-law).
Making a case for Tut's parents being Smenkhkare and Meritaten.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks.

I am interested in the issue of DNA broadly, but especially in regard to the Amarna royals, and I thought this might be a reasonable thread to post my query on.

Can DNA tests be used as a secure means of separating sibling relationships from Father-Daughter relationships in regards to paternity/maternity?
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks.

I am interested in the issue of DNA broadly, but especially in regard to the Amarna royals, and I thought this might be a reasonable thread to post my query on.

Can DNA tests be used as a secure means of separating sibling relationships from Father-Daughter relationships in regards to paternity/maternity?
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Sobek
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
Can DNA tests be used as a secure means of separating sibling relationships from Father-Daughter relationships in regards to paternity/maternity?

Yes. DNA tests can even identify 'chimeras' (one person with two distinct DNA profiles).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Habicht et al, 2016 the idea that Yuya is a brother of Thutmose IV is proposed in Gabolde, 2013.

What Gabolde, 2013 actually says (translated to English) is " ... It is hardly conceivable that Yuya is a brother of Thutmose IV."

Has Marc Gabolde changed his mind about this since 2013?
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sobek wrote:
According to Habicht et al, 2016 the idea that Yuya is a brother of Thutmose IV is proposed in Gabolde, 2013.

What Gabolde, 2013 actually says (translated to English) is " ... It is hardly conceivable that Yuya is a brother of Thutmose IV."

Has Marc Gabolde changed his mind about this since 2013?


If yuya was a brother of thutmose IV, assuming they shared the same father, yuya and amenhoyep III would share the same y dna profile. Since this would have been mentioned in the dna results, i would exclude this possibility. Possibly they share the same mother, but as i have read, yuya and mutemwia are always linked as siblings. I think this is one of aldred's theories.
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sobek wrote:
According to Habicht et al, 2016 the idea that Yuya is a brother of Thutmose IV is proposed in Gabolde, 2013.

What Gabolde, 2013 actually says (translated to English) is " ... It is hardly conceivable that Yuya is a brother of Thutmose IV."

Has Marc Gabolde changed his mind about this since 2013?


If yuya was a brother of thutmose IV, assuming they shared the same father, yuya and amenhoyep III would share the same y dna profile. Since this would have been mentioned in the dna results, i would exclude this possibility. Possibly they share the same mother, but as i have read, yuya and mutemwia are always linked as siblings. I think this is one of aldred's theories.
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SaintGermain
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 3 generations Reply with quote

SidneyF wrote:
Thieuke wrote:
The third generation is in MG's theory not a generation but a marriage between double first cousins:

1 AIII married Tiye they were first cousins (his mother, her father being full siblings) and parents of Achnaten
2 A full sibling of AIII is the parent (most likely father) of Nefertiti
3 A full sibling of Tiye is the other parent (most likely mother) of Nefertiti

that would provide enough closeness in the family relations to give Achnaten and Nefertiti DNA that is like that of siblings.


No. Didn't you see what I wrote and quoted just above about twins? Just being a full sibling of anybody does not give you all their same DNA. You only get about half of the DNA of your non-twin sibling.

What is so hard about this? At each locus, you have the potential of inheriting FOUR different combinations of alleles [numbers] from your parents. Let's say one parent has 11/12 at one marker and the other parent has 10/16. A child could potentially inherit

10/11
10/12
11/16
12/16

But will only inherit one set of numbers. Let's say one child gets 11/16 and the other non-twin child gets 10/12. Those are the only numbers each child can possibly pass down to his or her own children at that locus.

Can you see that each of the original children has no two numbers alike at the same locus? And it would likely be the same story at other loci, too, although not at all. Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye were cousins but it is not possible to say from present information just how. It is not possible to discern whether Yuya was the uncle of A III on the maternal or paternal side from the information of the JAMA paper. Regardless, as you can see, AIII and Queen Tiye have hardly any DNA in common and---IF--the sister of one married the brother of another, there would be the same story there. There are so many variables in that situation that it would be next to impossible for a cousin of Akhenaten, born of the latter union, to have ALL the DNA of AIII and Queen Tiye at every locus.

Anyone who believes otherwise is just plain wrong.


AMEN. Older thread but needs repeating for the record as this Gabolde theory still gets repeated. It's now more wrong than ever because

1. The mother of AIII and the father of Tiye were not full siblings. If they
had been, they would have shared a mitochondrial haplogroup, which
they don't.

2. Yuya is also not a brother of Thutmose IV, father of AIII, because they
don't share a y-haplogroup, as sons of the same father would.

So that takes care of that generation. Judging from the autosomal DNA, Yuya is related to Amenhotep III somehow but not so closely as to make AIII and Tiye first cousins.
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The findings of DNA tests Suzanne Bickel was hoping to do of remains from KV40 might end up being key to this. That tomb was it seems for women and children of the harems of Tuthmosis IV and Amenhotep III. Some children are named as king’s daughter, one is “the one of the king’s son”. Let’s hope this testing happens if it hasn’t already, gets published and is of use.
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SaintGermain
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
The findings of DNA tests Suzanne Bickel was hoping to do of remains from KV40 might end up being key to this. That tomb was it seems for women and children of the harems of Tuthmosis IV and Amenhotep III. Some children are named as king’s daughter, one is “the one of the king’s son”. Let’s hope this testing happens if it hasn’t already, gets published and is of use.


I agree with you that this is a fascinating tomb. I wonder if there is a thread about it here--as the present thread is already too long. Let me look. If there is not, we could start one.
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