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The Hyksos Ruler Khyan and the Early SIP in Egypt (2018)

 
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: The Hyksos Ruler Khyan and the Early SIP in Egypt (2018) Reply with quote

The Hyksos Ruler Khyan and the Early Second Intermediate Period in Egypt - Problems and Priorities of Current Research. - [Proceedings of the Workshop of the Austrian Archaeological Institute and the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, Vienna, July 4 – 5, 2014]. - Wien : Holzhausen, 2018. - ISBN 978-3-902976-83-3. - 306 p. - [PDF - 38 MB].
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Recent results from the most important sites of the Late Middle Kingdom and the Second Intermediate Period (Edfu, Tell el-Dab'a and Abydos) have broadened our knowledge of the situation in Egypt enormously. Of utmost importance in this context are the sealing impressions from Edfu and Tell el-Dab’a bearing the name of the Hyksos ruler Khyan and the discovery of the previously-unknown royal tombs of an independent „Abydene” Dynasty in Abydos, which bring new light to bear on our understanding of the political situation in this period.

Besides King Apophis, Khyan is one of the most important kings of the 15th Dynasty. However, his chronological position within the 15th Dynasty is not clear. Traditionally he has been assigned to the middle of the 15th Dynasty, but recent results now indicate a dating at the beginning of the 15th Dynasty and an overlap between the 13th and the 15th Dynasty. This new chronological position has far-reaching consequences not only for Egyptian chronology, but also for the chronology of the Mediterranean world. The new finds from Tell el-Dab’a, Edfu and Abydos necessitate a revision of the chronology of Dynasties 13 to 17 in Egypt, and a reconsideration of political and administrative structures during the Second Intermediate Period.

The discussions during the workshop were very positive, although a wide range of interpretations of the evidence still remain plausible, especially in respect of the chronological conclusions. These are reflected in the range of contributions to the volume. It is hoped that this publication will stimulate further discussion and research on this important topic.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Montuhotep88
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently purchased this book and am reading it.

It is with some consternation that I read several chapters that propose to reconcile the C14 data regarding Khyan, Santorini, and several other events; following David Aston's opening chapter, this would seem to throw a lot more weight behind the old "High" chronology (Thutmose III accession in 1504 BCE), when up to recently it appeared scholarly consensus has been settling on the "Low" chronology (Thutmose III accession in 1479 BCE).

While I welcome any development that helps explain the apparent 100-120 year gap between the C14 readings and the archaeological evidence, it seems to me that there's no longer a lot of room for NK internal chronology to flex up an additional generation, particularly when the end of it is pretty firmly anchored ca. 1065-1070 BCE. I'll need to play with the numbers to be sure, but I'm scratching my head as to where the "additional" years will come from... and it really also seems to me that this puts a lot of pressure on the Second Intermediate Period, with a generation yanked away from it.


Idea Still reading, but very much wondering!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm... one of the chapters cites a forthcoming work by Daniel Polz on the "Seventeenth Dynasty," which suggests to me that it might be in English. I'm aware of some of his articles from the excavations at Dra Abu-el Naga, but I haven't found any reference to a forthcoming book at the DAIK website.

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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The University Library Heidelberg is the reference library for Egyptological specialist literature in Germany. In other words, she endeavors to keep the complete collection of all literature that appears worldwide to the subject area, especially all works from German-speaking authors.

If you search the Online Catalog from this library with "polz, daniel", it gives no result for a title "The Seventeenth Dynasty of Egypt".

That does not really surprise me, since this book / article (?) is in a book from the year 2018 still "forthcoming" ...

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll keep an eye out for it... as I noticed last night, one of the articles noting the "forthcoming" Seventeenth Dynasty work is by Polz himself, so he ought to know!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montuhotep88 wrote:
I recently purchased this book and am reading it.

It is with some consternation that I read several chapters that propose to reconcile the C14 data regarding Khyan, Santorini, and several other events; following David Aston's opening chapter, this would seem to throw a lot more weight behind the old "High" chronology (Thutmose III accession in 1504 BCE), when up to recently it appeared scholarly consensus has been settling on the "Low" chronology (Thutmose III accession in 1479 BCE).


As a follow-up, I've acquired and have been reading Shortland and Bronk Ramsey (eds.), Radiocarbon and the Chronologies of Ancient Egypt. It's made the challenges of C14 dating more clear to me. The element of Egypt having a different growing season in Pharaonic (and pre-20th Century) times from most other places is extremely interesting, and provides a very good indicator of why C14 dating has been so much of a problem in the past as regards Egyptology-- basically, the C14 models that had been applied were developed for a different part of the world. Manfred Bietak leads a spirited (excellently-supplied with evidence) charge in favor of the lower, "archaeological" chronology, and many experts in the fields chime in with pertinent and exacting comments. Some of the specifics of the physics are beyond me, but I can appreciate the scientific viewpoint from a general level, and "watching" the "debate" between stratigraphy and seriation on the one hand and radiation half-life and chemical analyses on the other hand is very absorbing.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And continuing to follow up... In the appendix to Shortland et. al., the results of the principal models are detailed. They appear to fit a "medium-high" chronology (for NK, Thutmose III accession 1479, Ramses II 1279) and the authors say there is general agreement with the chronology found in Shaw, et. al., The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt (2000).

However, I find that the match is even closer with von Beckerath. Taking C14 model #3 for each of the Old, Middle, and New Kingdoms, the dates agree extremely well with von Beckerath's Chronologie des Pharaonischen Ägypten (1997), even when the C14 date ranges are tightened from two (actually 1.96) standard deviations from the mean to only one. This is interesting because von Beckerath's work was not a direct input to the model (whereas Shaw was). The near-match is good from the beginning of the Third Dynasty until the accession of Shoshenq I in ca. 945 BCE, by which time date variations are very minor. The Intermediate Periods are somewhat murkier, of course, but the three "Kingdoms" match up quite well. (One exception I noticed-- there is about a generation's difference between von Beckerath and the C14 models for the 4th Dynasty, with C14 data suggesting von Beckerath's 4th dynasty is roughly a generation (about 25-30 years) too long, and that time should be included in the 5th Dynasty instead.

I'm sure this is an intellectual exercise on my part rather than anything like a 'discovery,' but I'm quite pleased with it nonetheless.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radiocarbon and the Chronologies of Ancient Egypt. - [Ed. Shortland / Ramsey / Bronk / Dee]. - Oxford : Oxbow, 2013. - ISBN : 978-1-78297-057-6. - 292 p. - [PDF - 17,3 MB].

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"This volume presents the findings of a major international project on the application of radiocarbon dating to the Egyptian historical chronology. Researchers from the Universities of Oxford and Cranfield in the UK, along with a team from France, Austria and Israel, radiocarbon dated more than 200 Egyptian objects made from plant material from museum collections from all over the world. The results comprise an accurate scientifically based chronology of the kings of ancient Egypt obtained by the radiocarbon analysis of short-lived plant remains. The research sheds light on one of the most important periods of Egyptian history documenting the various rulers of Egypt's Old, Middle and New Kingdoms. Despite Egypt's historical significance, in the past the dating of events has been a contentious undertaking with Egyptologists relying on various chronologies made up from archaeological and historical records. The radiocarbon dates nail down a chronology that is broadly in line with previous estimates. However, they do rule out some chronologies that have been put forward particularly in the Old Kingdom, which is shown to be older than some scholars thought. The research has implications for the whole region because the Egyptian chronology anchors the timing of historical events in neighbouring areas tied to the reign of particular Egyptian kings. The results will allow for more historical comparisons to be made in countries like Libya and Sudan, which have conducted radiocarbon dating techniques on places of archaeological interest in the past."


Maybe also of interest ...

" Radiocarbon Dating and the Egyptian Historical Chronology "
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm old-fashioned. I bought the book, but thanks for the PDF link anyway. Smile

I'll check out the other link... Danke!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montuhotep88 wrote:
I'm old-fashioned. I bought the book, ...

The advantage of the PDF you learn to appreciate on the ground in Egypt, if you want to look something fast ...
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