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Help! In reference to Egyptian transliteration and grammar

 
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yandiel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Help! In reference to Egyptian transliteration and grammar Reply with quote

On page 46 of A.W. Budge's Papyrus of Ani Vol 2 (link = https://ia802705.us.archive.org/13/items/papyrusofanirepr02budg/papyrusofanirepr02budg.pd), the English translation:

... let there be joy of heart (to us)...

doesn't have an Egyptian transliteration and I can not find a copy of it anywhere!!!

Ultimately I'm attempting to translate a command, for example "let there be light!". The closest sentence I can find is:

...Dj Sm jrt=f (let your eye go)

Except in this example there is an action verb, for the Egyptian transliteration of "let there be joy (or "light"), I don't believe we're dealing with an action verb. It would most likely:

1) be a non-verbal sentence (possibly a nominal sentence with a prepositional phrase nuance)

2) consist of the existence verb "wnn"??? Though I believe this is less likely.

3) consist of a jussive-esque/command of some sort.

4) be some other form that I'm ignorant of

Can anyone enlighten me because I've been on a standstill on this for a while.[/b]
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Aset
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Vygus : Middle Egyptian Dictionary. - 2018. - 2568 p. - [PDF - 14 MB]. - Page 437 :

Quote:
wn sSp / let there be light, chase away the darkness / E34 - O31 - S29 - O42 - Q3 - N5

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yandiel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Mark Vygus : Middle Egyptian Dictionary. - 2018. - 2568 p. - [PDF - 14 MB]. - Page 437 :

Quote:
wn sSp / let there be light, chase away the darkness / E34 - O31 - S29 - O42 - Q3 - N5


OMG what a life saver you are!!! You know how long I've been looking for a sentence like that!!! You deserve a huge hug for that 😆😆😆🙈🙊🐵🙉 And who would have thought that the verb "wnn" - to exist, would have been used because most grammars would point "wnn" to be used only in specific circumstances and I wouldn't group this type of sentence in that group.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The " WÖRTERBUCH DER AEGYPTISCHEN SPRACHE " (Adolf Erman / Hermann Grapow, Unchanged reprint, Berlin, 1971) gives the formulation in Volume I, Page 312.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe another note ... I have looked for the supporting documents indicated in the "Wörterbuch" (1971). They are all from greek-roman times, from temple inscriptions in Dendera, Edfu and Thebes.

So, maybe the listing of the phrase in a dictionary entitled "Middle Egyptian Dictionary" (Vygus) is (at least) a little daring?
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yandiel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Maybe another note ... I have looked for the supporting documents indicated in the "Wörterbuch" (1971). They are all from greek-roman times, from temple inscriptions in Dendera, Edfu and Thebes.

So, maybe the listing of the phrase in a dictionary entitled "Middle Egyptian Dictionary" (Vygus) is (at least) a little daring?


It's believable though! Ancient Egyptian was not too strict in translation of sentences like this, I am sure there is more than one way to express the idea and wn sSp does fit in with the grammar, in a sense I didn't ultimately think it would but there are indications that the words are found together.
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