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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so very kindly, you are inspiring!
neseret wrote:
You are referring to the shen /Sn/ rope, which is elongated into a cartouche for royal names. This actually has nothing to do with Seshat.
Yes I was, [the idea seemed semi-plausible to my simple mind] thx for the definitive
neseret wrote:
If you are interested in the symbolic meaning of numbers, I also suggest this book by Richard Wilkinson, which explains this:Wilkinson, R. H. 1994. Symbol and Magic in Egyptian Art. London: Thames and Hudson
Yes I am, and yes I will

I have been reading about the sacred ished and its allusion to the combined function of Sehsat and T'huti recording the genut. Is this genut relative only to kingly relationships/succession/accession? - or is there a similar (or additional) function for a record of 'the gods'? - is this what you were specifically talking about when you said Seshat and T'huti's 'combined efforts make up all recorded history, records and texts of the Egyptians' or should I take this in a more general sense? ie; Seshat and T'huti = Records, History, Time etc.?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:46 am    Post subject: Books of the Gods? (Excursus: Books of Thoth) Reply with quote

freeTinker wrote:
I have been reading about the sacred ished and its allusion to the combined function of Sehsat and T'huti recording the genut. Is this genut relative only to kingly relationships/succession/accession? - or is there a similar (or additional) function for a record of 'the gods'? - is this what you were specifically talking about when you said Seshat and T'huti's 'combined efforts make up all recorded history, records and texts of the Egyptians' or should I take this in a more general sense? ie; Seshat and T'huti = Records, History, Time etc.?


Definitely that the functions of Seshat and Thoth/Djehuty equal all written records of men. The functions of gods and their history come mainly from folklore, and are not considered part of the written histories of these two deities. Men can only tell what they know of the gods, but the gods themselves actually tell us nothing of their history in texts.

However, that said, there is several references in Egyptian folklore to the writings of Thoth, which contained great magic. In Papyrus Westcar, it is part of a question posed by Khufu to the magician Djedi, which goes like this:

/pA- ir=f Dd iw=k rx.ti tnw nA-n-ipA.w.t n.t wn.t n.t DHwty/

Now what about what they say about you knowing the writings of the secret chambers of the sanctuary of Thoth?

Djedi is coy enough to say he knows where these writings are, but that he cannot bring them to Khufu, for only one of the 3 succeeding kings (whose births he is foretelling) will bring the flint box which holds the secrets to the king.

Now the term /tnw/ has a determinative of a scroll and multiple strokes, which means they are probably secret writings, and are often translated this way.

These writings of Thoth are /HkA/, or great words of magic, which are used by the gods to create by speaking/thinking into existence. One can see why Khufu would want access to such scrolls for his own use. But Djedi says he cannot provide them to the king, though he knows where they are.

In pWestcar, these books are never delivered to Khufu, as the story breaks off, but the insinuation is that Khufu never acquired them in life.

Reference to these same Books of Thoth surfaces again in the Late Period story of the Setne Khamwaset cycle of stories. But as you will read, possessing the books of Thoth extracts a heavy price for the owner.

In the first set of these stories, here 's how the books are described to the priest Naneferkaptah, in the story as told by Naneferkaptah's wife Ahwere to the prince Khaemwaset, son of Ramses II, who is considered a magician in his own right:

After this there was a procession in honor of Ptah, and Naneferkaptah went into the temple to worship. As he was walking behind the procession, reading the writings on the shrines of the gods, [an old priest saw] him and laughed. Naneferkaptah said to him: "Why are you laughing at me?" He said: "I am not laughing at you. I am laughing because you are reading writings that have no [importance for anyone]. If you desire to read writings, come to me and I will have you taken to the place where that book is that Thoth wrote with his own hand, when he came down following the other gods. Two spells are written in it. When you [recite the first spell you will] charm the sky, the earth, the netherworld, the mountains, and the waters. You will discover what all the birds of the sky and all the reptiles are saying. You will see the fish of the deep [though there are twenty-one divine cubits of water] over [them]. When you recite the second spell, it will happen that, whether you are in the netherworld or in your form on earth, you will see Pre appearing in the sky with his Ennead, and the Moon in its form of rising."

(15) [Naneferkaptah said to him]: "As he (the king) lives, tell me a good thing that you desire, so that I may do it for you, and you send me to the place where this book is!"

The priest said to Naneferkaptah: "If you wish to be sent [to the place where this book is] you must give me a hundred pieces of silver for my burial, and you must endow me with two priestly stipends tax free."

Naneferkaptah called a servant and had the hundred pieces of silver given to the priest. He added the two stipends and had [the priest] endowed with them [tax free].

The priest said to Naneferkaptah: "The book in question is in the middle of the water of Coptos in a box of iron. In the box of iron is a box of [copper. In the box of copper is] a box of juniper wood. In the box of juniper wood is a box of ivory and ebony. In the box of ivory and ebony is a [box of silver. In the box of silver] is a box of gold, and in it is the book. [There are six miles of] serpents, scorpions, and all kinds of reptiles around the box in which the book is, and there is (20) [an eternal serpent around] this same box."


Naneferkaptah cajoles a ship from the Pharaoh, who is called 'Mernebptah' (though no king is known by this name).

The story then continues, as told by Naneferkaptah's wife, Ahwere:

When the morning of our fifth day came, Naneferkaptah had [much] pure [wax brought] to him. He made a boat filled with its rowers and sailors. He recited a spell to them, he made them live, he gave them breath, he put them on the water. He filled the ship of Pharaoh with sand, [he tied it to the other boat]. He [went] on board, and I sat above the water of Coptos, saying: "I shall learn what happens to him."

He said to the rowers: "Row me to the place where that book (30) is!" [They rowed him by night] as by day. In three days he reached it. He cast sand before him, and a gap formed in the river. He found six miles of serpents, scorpions, and all kinds of reptiles around [the place where the book was]. He found an eternal serpent around this same box. He recited a spell to the six miles of serpents, scorpions, and all kinds of reptiles that were around the box, and did not let them come up. [He went to the place where] the eternal serpent was. He fought it and killed it. It came to life again and resumed its shape. He fought it again, a second time, and killed it; it came to life again. He [fought it again, a third] time, cut it in two pieces, and put sand between one piece and the other. [It died] and no longer resumed its shape.

Naneferkaptah went to the place where the box was. [He found it was a box of] iron. He opened it and found a box of copper. He opened it and found a box of juniper wood. He opened it and found a box of ivory and ebony. (35) [He opened it and found a box of] silver. He opened it and found a box of gold. He opened it and found the book in it. He brought the book up out of the box of gold.

He recited a spell from it; [he charmed the sky, the earth, the netherworld, the] mountains, the waters. He discovered what all the birds of the sky and the fish of the deep and the beasts of the desert were saying. He recited another spell; he saw [Pre appearing in the sky with his Ennead], and the Moon rising, and the stars in their forms. He saw the fish of the deep, though there were twenty-one divine cubits of water over them. He recited a spell to the [water; he made it resume its form].

[He went on] board, he said to the rowers: "Row me back to the place [I came] from." They rowed him by night as by day. He reached me at the place where I was; [he found me sitting] above the water of Coptos, not having drunk nor eaten, not having done anything on earth, and looking like a person who has reached the Good House.

I said to Naneferkaptah: (40) ["Welcome back! Let me] see this book for which we have taken these [great] pains!" He put the book into my hand. I recited one spell from it; I charmed the sky, (4,1) the earth, the netherworld, the mountains, the waters. I discovered what all the birds of the sky and the fish of the deep and the beasts were saying. I recited another spell; I saw Pre appearing in the sky with his Ennead. I saw the Moon rising, and all the stars of the sky in their forms. I saw the fish of the deep, though there were twenty-one divine cubits of water over them.

As I could not write—I mean, compared with Naneferkaptah, my brother, who was a good scribe and very wise man—he had a sheet of new papyrus brought to him. He wrote on it every word that was in the book before him. He soaked it in beer, he dissolved it in water. When he knew it had dissolved, he drank it and knew what had been in it.

(5) We returned to Coptos the same day and made holiday before Isis of Coptos and Harpocrates. We went on board, we traveled north, we reached a point six miles north of Coptos.

Now Thoth had found out everything that had happened to Naneferkaptah regarding the book, and Thoth hastened to report it to Pre, saying: "Learn of my right and my case against Naneferkaptah, the son of Pharaoh Mernenptah! He went to my storehouse; he plundered it; he seized my box with my document. He killed my guardian who was watching over it!" He was told: "He is yours together with every person belonging to him." They sent a divine power from heaven, saying: "Do not allow Naneferkaptah and any person belonging to him to get to Memphis safely!"

At a certain moment the boy Merib came out from under the awning of Pharaoh's ship, fell into the water, and drowned. All the people on board cried out. Naneferkaptah came out from his tent, recited a spell to him, and made him rise up, though there were (10) twenty-one divine cubits of water over him. He recited a spell to him and made him relate to him everything that had happened to him, and the nature of the accusation that Thoth had made before Pre.

We returned to Coptos with him. We had him taken to the Good House. We had him tended, we had him embalmed like a prince and important person. We laid him to rest in his coffin in the desert of Coptos. Naneferkaptah, my brother, said: "Let us go north, let us not delay, lest Pharaoh hear the things that have happened to us and his heart become sad because of them." We went on board, we went north without delay.

Six miles north of Coptos, at the place where the boy Merib had fallen into the river, I came out from under the awning of Pharaoh's ship, fell into the river, and drowned. All the people on board cried out and told Naneferkaptah. He came out from the tent of Pharaoh's ship, recited a spell to me, and made me rise up, though there were twenty-one divine cubits (15) of water over me. He had me brought up, recited a spell to me, and made me relate to him everything that had happened to me, and the nature of the accusation that Thoth had made before Pre.

He returned to Coptos with me. He had me taken to the Good House. He had me tended, he had me embalmed in the manner of a prince and very important person. He laid me to rest in the tomb in which the boy Merib was resting. He went on board, he went north without delay.

Six miles north of Coptos, at the place where we had fallen into the river, he spoke to his heart saying: "Could I go to Coptos and dwell there also? If I go to Memphis now and Pharaoh asks me about his children, what shall I say to him? Can I say to him, 'I took your children to the region of Thebes; I killed them and stayed alive, and I have come to Memphis yet alive'?"

He sent for a scarf of royal linen belonging to him, and made it into a bandage; he bound the book, placed it on his body, (20) and made it fast. Naneferkaptah came out from under the awning of Pharaoh's ship, fell into the water, and drowned. All the people on board cried out, saying: "Great woe, sad woe! Will he return, the good scribe, the learned man whose like has not been?"

Pharaoh came down to meet Pharaoh's ship; he wore mourning and all the people of Memphis wore mourning, including the priests of Ptah, the chief priest of Ptah, the council, and all Pharaoh's household. Then they saw Naneferkaptah holding on to the rudders of Pharaoh's ship through his craft of a good scribe. They brought him up and saw the book on his body.

Pharaoh said: "Let this book that is on his body be hidden." Then said the council of Pharaoh and the priests of Ptah and the chief priest of Ptah to Pharaoh: "Our great lord—O may he have the lifetime of Pre—Naneferkaptah was a good scribe and a very learned man!" Pharaoh had (25) them give him entry into the Good House on the sixteenth day, wrapping on the thirty-fifth, burial on the seventieth day. And they laid him to rest in his coffin in his resting place.

These are the evil things that befell us on account of this book of which you say, "Let it be given to me." You have no claim to it, whereas our lives on earth were taken on account of it!


As you can see, the possession of the Books of Thoth gives no joy to anyone. But this does not stop Khaemwaset (here referred to as Setne), who, upon hearing Ahwere's story, cajoles her to take him to Naneferkaptah's tomb so he can see the Books of Thoth. She does, and so continues the story:

Naneferkaptah rose from the bier and said: "Are you Setne, to whom this woman has told these dire things and you have not accepted them? The said book, will you be able to seize it through the power of a good scribe, or through skill in playing draughts with me? Let the two of us play draughts for it!" Said Setne, "I am ready."

They put before them the game board with its pieces, and they both played. Naneferkaptah won one game from Setne. He recited a spell to him, struck his head with the game-box that was before him, and made him sink into the ground as far as his legs. He did the same with the second game. He won it (30) from Setne, and made him sink into the ground as far as his phallus. He did the same with the third game, and made him sink into the ground as far as his ears. After this Setne was in great straits at the hands of Naneferkaptah.

Setne called to his foster-brother Inaros, saying: "Hasten up to the earth and tell Pharaoh everything that has happened to me; and bring the amulets of my father Ptah and my books of sorcery." He hastened up to the earth and told Pharaoh everything that had happened to Setne. Pharaoh said: "Take him the amulets of his father Ptah and his books of sorcery." Inaros hastened down into the tomb. He put the amulets on the body of Setne, and he jumped up in that very moment. Setne stretched out his hand for the book and seized it. Then, as Setne came up from the tomb, light went before him, darkness went behind him, and Ahwere wept after him, saying: "Hail, O darkness! Farewell, O light! Everything that was (35) in the tomb has departed!" Naneferkaptah said to Ahwere: "Let your heart not grieve. I will make him bring this book back here, with a forked stick in his hand and a lighted brazier on his head!"

Setne came up from the tomb and made it fast behind him, as it had been. Setne went before Pharaoh and related to him the things that had happened to him on account of the book. Pharaoh said to Setne: "Take this book back to the tomb of Naneferkaptah like a wise man, or else he will make you take it back with a forked stick in your hand and a lighted brazier on your head." Setne did not listen to him. Then Setne had no occupation on earth but to unroll the book and read from it to everyone.


But even the great magician-prince Khaemwaset cannot escape the curse which follows the Books of Thoth, and meets shortly thereafter a woman named Tabubu, with whom he falls madly in love. But Tabubu is coy and will not given into the prince's cajoling for lovemaking, and requires of him several actions before she will give herself to him, noting that she is of priestly rank and not a common woman of the streets. These requests of increasing intensity are:

a) Require Setne Khaemwaset to make a deed of maintenance for Tabubu by giving her all he owns;

b) Tabubu then requires all the children of Setne Khaemwaset sign off on the deed so they will make no claims against her for their father's inheritance;

and finally,
c) Determined that no claim shall come to haunt her, Tabubu requires that Setne Khaemwaset kill all of his own children, so that no person from his family can make a claim against the deed of maintenance for Tabubu.

All of this Setne Khaemwaset does. This is vividly described as the story continues:

Setne said: "Let the abomination that came into your head be done to them." She had his children killed before him. She had them thrown down from the window to the dogs and cats. They ate their flesh, and he heard them as he drank with Tabubu.

Setne said to Tabubu: "Let us accomplish what we have come here for! All the things that you have said, I have done them all for you." She said to him: "Come now to this storehouse." Setne went to the storehouse. He lay down on a couch of ivory and ebony, his wish about to be fulfilled. Tabubu lay down beside Setne. He stretched out his hand to touch her, and she opened her mouth (30) wide in a loud cry. Setne awoke in a state of great heat, his phallus in a ... , and there were no clothes on him at all.

At this moment Setne saw a noble person borne in a litter, with many rnen running beside him, and he had the likeness of Pharaoh. Setne was about to rise but could not rise for shame because he had no clothes on. Pharaoh said: "Setne, what is this state that you are in?" He said: "It is Naneferkaptah who has done it all to me!" Pharaoh said: "Go to Memphis; your children want you; they stand in their rank before Pharaoh." Setne said to Pharaoh: "My great lord—O may he have the lifetime of Pre—how can I go to Memphis with no clothes on me at all?" Pharaoh called to a servant who was standing by and made him give clothes to Setne. Pharaoh said: "Setne, go to Memphis; (35) your children are alive; they stand in their rank before Pharaoh."

When Setne came to Memphis he embraced his children, for he found them alive. Pharaoh said to Setne: "Was it a state of drunkenness you were in before?" Setne related everything that had happened with Tabubu and Naneferkaptah. Pharaoh said: "Setne, I did what I could with you before, saying, 'They will kill you if you do not take this book back to the place you took it from.' You have not listened to me until now. Take this book back to Naneferkaptah, with a forked stick in your hand and a lighted brazier on your head."

When Setne came out from before Pharaoh, there was a forked stick in his hand and a lighted brazier on his head. He went down into the tomb in which Naneferkaptah was. Ahwere said to him: "Setne, it is the great god Ptah who has brought you back safely." (6,1) Naneferkaptah laughed, saying, "It is what I told you before." Setne greeted Naneferkaptah, and he found one could say that Pre was in the whole tomb. Ahwere and Naneferkaptah greeted Setne warmly.

Setne said: "Naneferkaptah, is there any matter which is shameful?" Naneferkaptah said: "Setne, you know that Ahwere and her son Merib are in Coptos; here in this tomb they are through the craft of a good scribe. Let it be asked of you to undertake the task of going to Coptos and [bringing them] (5) here."

When Setne had come up from the tomb, he went before Pharaoh and related to Pharaoh everything that Naneferkaptah had said to him. Pharaoh said: "Setne, go to Coptos, bring Ahwere and her son Merib." He said to Pharaoh: "Let the ship of Pharaoh and its equipment be given to me."

The ship of Pharaoh and its equipment were given to him. He went on board, he set sail, he reached Coptos without delay. It was announced to the priests of Isis of Coptos, and the chief priest of Isis. They came down to meet him, they conducted him to the shore.
<...>
They spent three days and three nights searching in all the tombs on the desert of Coptos, turning over the stelae of the scribes of the House of Life, and reading the inscriptions on them. They did not find the resting place (10) in which Ahwere and her son were.

When Naneferkaptah found that they did not find the resting place of Ahwere and her son Merib, he rose up as an old man, a very aged priest, and came to meet Setne. When Setne saw him he said to the old man: "You have the appearance of a man of great age. Do you know the resting place in which Ahwere and her son Merib are?" The old man said to Setne: "My great-grandfather said to my grandfather, 'The resting place of Ahwere and her son Merib is at the south corner of the house of the [chief of police].' "

Setne said to the old man: "Perhaps there is some wrong that the chief of police did to you, on account of which you are trying to have his house torn down?" The old man said to Setne: "Have a watch set over me, and let (15) the house of the chief of police be demolished. If they do not find Ahwere and her son Merib under the south corner of his house, let punishment be done to me."

They set a watch over the old man, and they found the resting place of Ahwere and her son Merib under the south corner of the house of the chief of police. Setne let the two noble persons enter into Pharaoh's ship. He had the house of the chief of police built as it had been before. Naneferkaptah let Setne learn the fact that it was he who had come to Coptos, to let them find the resting place in which Ahwere and her son Merib were. Setne went on board Pharaoh's ship. He went north and without delay he reached Memphis with all the people who were with him. When it was announced before Pharaoh, he came down to meet the ship of Pharaoh. He let the noble persons enter into the tomb in which Naneferkaptah was. He had it closed over (20) them all together.
(Lichtheim 1980: 128-137)

Thus ends the story.

The short moral of this story is, "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." Laughing

But this story is created just to show how much the gods would not have wanted their books or writings in the hand of man. Every possessor of the Books of Thoth dies, or escapes death only by returning the book to the last known place where it was kept (here, the tomb of Naneferkaptah). But it is because Thoth has asked Pre (=Ra) to assure that no mortal shall benefit from his books, which are /HkA/ and also an archive of the gods' powers to create.

So in final answer to your query, "is there a similar (or additional) function for a record of 'the gods'?", the answer would be that 'no', we have no such works, and by the very nature of Egyptian myth/folkore, it would be death to even possess them.

Reference:

pWestcar (online)

Lichtheim, M. 1980. Ancient Egyptian Literature: The Late Period. (Vol. III). Berkeley: University of California.

HTH.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... and perhaps there could be more *real* truth to the tale than at first meets the eye. I always kinda equated the *warning* given (in above tale) to the story of "the tree of life (knowledge of good and evil)' - for in the day that man eateth of that tree (knowledge of the gods etc.) he shall surely taste death... etc., (or similar)

Thank you for all your energies with Seshat and associated info, I find the whole subject fascinating (and certainly a distraction from 'trying' to understand the Amarna soup). I play with matters philisophical and Metaphysical with all this stuff and I am going to try an get my head around the god - goddess roles/functions in a creational sense. Like (the problem in my head currently is along the lines of) the female creates within, (allussion to pregnancy, Nut/Mut etc.), the male creates external... the duck/goose and the egg kinda thing, which comes first perhaps?!

Thx again (for now) you truly are inspirational!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to clarify a point/question raised earlier in this thread re any connection between Seshat > shen-ring > cartouche

neseret wrote:
You are referring to the shen /Sn/ rope, which is elongated into a cartouche for royal names. This actually has nothing to do with Seshat.


Is this a point of contention between egyptologist? - I found an article on-line http://www.recoveredscience.com/const104shenring1.htm and it seems to point to a definite connection, there are a couple of interesting pages and it seems (properly) researched and gives references to sources

I don't want to labor the issue, but a connection between Seshat and the shen ring > cartouche I find very interesting specifically since we are led to believe that the ancient egyptians appear to have developed their construction skills in advance of writing - I always found that strange (if not impossible), perhaps their writing at an early stage was transient, like 'inks' (I use the term loosely) on slabs or (in the) sand or on leaves?. What is the earliest date we have for their writing?

One kinda appendix question, I understand that there was discovered the 'name' of khufu (albeit seemingly inaccurate) in one of the upper chambers (Campbell's chamber?) of the great pyramid. I am aware that some have called it a hoax and others stand by it being original to the construction. I know we cannot carbon date rock, but are there any studies of carbon dating of the actual writing 'ink'? (again I use the term 'ink' loosely) - was their 'ink' composed of vegetative material?

Thx again, maybe this all of no consequence but your feedback might satisfy my curious mind
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

freeTinker wrote:
I just want to clarify a point/question raised earlier in this thread re any connection between Seshat > shen-ring > cartouche

neseret wrote:
You are referring to the shen /Sn/ rope, which is elongated into a cartouche for royal names. This actually has nothing to do with Seshat.


Is this a point of contention between egyptologist? - I found an article on-line http://www.recoveredscience.com/const104shenring1.htm and it seems to point to a definite connection, there are a couple of interesting pages and it seems (properly) researched and gives references to sources.


For one, Mr. Aleff, who runs the site, is not an Egyptologist. As he states on his site, " H. Peter Aleff: I am an engineer, a researcher, and a designer..

But that said, neither he nor any of his citations draw any connections of the /Sn(w)/ rope to Seshat, either, do they?

I stand by my earlier comments.

freeTinker wrote:
I don't want to labor the issue, but a connection between Seshat and the shen ring > cartouche I find very interesting


But there is no evidence there is any connection between Seshat and the Shen circle/rope. Nothing even in this article on Aleff's site states that, either. The meaning of the Shen ring is just what Aleff's site states:

This ring around his name indicated that the king, as living embodiment of the sun, ruled over all that the sun circles, that is, over all that exists.

No Seshat involved: it means that the Shen ring represents the universe over which the sun-god (and by extension, his "son," the Son of Ra, the king) governs. It's that simple, and does not require Seshat.

freeTinker wrote:
specifically since we are led to believe that the ancient egyptians appear to have developed their construction skills in advance of writing - I always found that strange (if not impossible), perhaps their writing at an early stage was transient, like 'inks' (I use the term loosely) on slabs or (in the) sand or on leaves?. What is the earliest date we have for their writing?


Pre-3200 BCE, according to the finds of Tomb U-J at Abydos, which is the tomb of King Scorpion, which predates the oldest monumental construction period of Egypt (The Step Pyramid of Djoser, built 2630 BCE) by a minimum of 600 years. As the script seems fairly intricate at this point, it's possible that writing in ancient Egypt many be even older than 3200 BCE.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
But that said, neither he nor any of his citations draw any connections of the /Sn(w)/ rope to Seshat, either, do they?


Actually he does, about half way > two thirds down page 2 he says "The Shen- Ring made from Seshat’s rope might get her approval even today as a concise image of the modern cosmos" so he seems to make a connection here; but please neseret this is a moot point, my question of it being a contention amongst egyptologists was a general question and not in relation to his specific comments, I am quite happy to accept your professional opinions

I am trying to develop my understanding of Seshat (and T'huti) from a 'numbers' perspective at the moment, I have ordered the book you suggested and will pursue this when I have read and pondered

One thing I have read is that Seshat was considered by the ancient Egyptians, scribe of humanity, as opposed to T'huti being considered scribe of the gods, is this an accurate perception?
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It feels like Seshat's headdress is an allussion to 'civil calendar', the seven points of the star; and perhaps the down-turned 'horns' as a metaphor for the vault(V20) = 70

Then there's her 'upright' the simple straight line that connects her to her headdress (which would increase 70 + 1 [2 if we incl.Tehuti] to 71/72)

What I am meaning is... could this be a similar (calendar/time) allussion to the (variously) 70/72 conspirators of Set who stuck Osiris into the casket?

Is there a connection between Seshat and Sopdet? - even if all as an aspect of Isis or woman?

Could 'civil calendar' relate to being scibe of humanity? and lunar calendar relate to being scribe of the gods?
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke, do you still have available the article by Wainwright, "Seshat the Pharoah"?
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G. A. Wainwright : Seshat and the Pharaoh. - In: The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology - JEA 26. - 1941. - pp. 30 - 40.
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