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why did the egyptians biuld/carve the sphinx.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
... Zahi Hawass / Mark Lehner : ... . - [PDF - 529 MB].
Should read: "[PDF - 5,92 MB]".
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maat
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Cute ... But as long as you do not bring any evidence for your stories, from archaeological digs or from ancient Egyptian texts, they are for me (and I think most of the users here) of little importance and / or interest.

Mark Lehner : Archaeology of an Image - The Great Sphinx of Giza. - [Yale University, PhD, 1991]. - Ann Arbor : UMI, 1994. - [PDF - 60,4 MB].

Zahi Hawass / Mark Lehner : The Passage under the Sphinx. - In: Hommages à Jean Leclant 1. - [Études Pharaoniques. Bibliothèque d'Étude 106/1]. - Cairo : Institut Français d'Archéolgie Orientale, 1994. - pp. 201 - 216. - [PDF - 529 MB].

OK. Reasonable...and I like Lehner but he does nnt yet have the information.
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maat
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Lutz wrote:
... Zahi Hawass / Mark Lehner : ... . - [PDF - 529 MB].
Should read: "[PDF - 5,92 MB]".

Thank you.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:
... I like Lehner but he does nnt yet have the information.

Let me guess ... But you?
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:
The sphinx is a reference element to locate the main portal into the Great Pyramid that was concealed until circa the 800s AD when the Caliph Mamoun (?) supposedly forced an entry into the structure.

I think there's proof that the forced passage had already existed.

Regardless, one function of the sphinx is (or was) to locate position of the main portal into the great pyramid.
Also, there's a reference buried under its right paw to locate another (door?) on the inside.
There are no tombs or passageways at the sphinx itself.
The Osiris Tomb or Osiris Shaft is also only a reference.
The sphinx body was buried and is of weaker stone than the face because the body was never meant to be exposed or displayed. It was to be unearthed only to provide referential information. It was designed to deteriorate if exposed to weather for long periods.


If it was meant to be hidden why did Tuthmosis IV dig it all out of the sand and then put a great big stela between its paws to commemorate the event?

He believed that the sphinx spoke to him and said it would give him the crown if he freed it of the sand. Well, he became king, whether it spoke to him or not so that is something. He also partially recarved the face of the sphinx, added an 18th dynasty style beard (or re-carved what was there) and also a statue of himself, of which only fragments remain. Part of the beard of the sphinx is in the British Museum.

Ramesses II later built a small chapel between the paws of the sphinx - so it definitely seems to have been associated with kingship and the gods Re and Horus.

What is curious is that structures are represented in the depictions of the sphinx on stele produced by Tuthmosis IV and Ramesses II which do not correspond to what is there now.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only a short demand ... Where does the information come from that Thutmosis IV has transformed the head of the sphinx?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are quite correct he didn’t re-carve the face but the beard appears to either be a later addition or was made to look like the 18th dynasty style.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That presumably the face / nemes - headscarf and with certainty the beard were revised is clear. I was interested to know, which source refers, to your information, that this was done under the reign of Thutmosis IV.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a side info ...

The identification and worship of the sphinx as god Hor-em-achet is already proven under the father of Thutmosis IV. Amenhotep II also built a temple in its immediate vicinity, also equipped with a large limestone stela :


(Text : Selim Hassan: The Great Limestone Stela of Amenhotep II. - In: ASAE 37. - 1937. - pp. 129-134 / Graphic : Mark Lehner: Archaeology of an Image - The Great Sphinx of Giza. - 1991. - Fig. 4.6)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
... Tuthmosis IV ... added an 18th dynasty style beard (or re-carved what was there) and also a statue of himself, of which only fragments remain. ...

I've been more involved with the topic during the last hours, especially with the reports by Selim Hassan on his digs in the 1920s / 30s ...

The first king of the 18th Dynasty, who appeared as a builder in the immediate vicinity of the sphinx was Thutmosis I. In his reign also the name Hor-em-achet for the sphinx is the first time secure, on a naos fragment, today in the Lovre. The still preserved part of the inscription on this naos describes a visit by Prince Amenmes, eldest kings son of Thutmosis I, and calls this king "beloved of Hor-em-achet".
From a Stela of King Ay we know that Thutmosis I had a house and land in the neighbourhood.

Different stela give different king names for the little figure just below the head / in front of the sphinx : Thutmosis III, Amenhotep II, Thutmosis IV, maybe also later kings (I stopped reading).

The beard is also represented differently on the stela of this period (18th Dynasty), which clearly show the sphinx of Giza. It can be both, the block-shaped rectangular, known from the OK on, as well as the braided gods-beard of the NK (which is archaeologically documented by the fragments in London and Cairo).
Perhaps one could tell from the representation of the beard under which king the head was redesigned. But I did not look at the stela from the 19th Dynasty and later ... If there are also representations with OK beard, it will be difficult to impossible.

Selim Hassan : The Great Sphinx and Its Secrets - Historical Studies in the Light of Recent Excavations. - [Excavations at Gîza 8 - 1936-1937]. - Cairo : Government Press, 1953. - XXV, 323 p., 203 fig., 71 pl.
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