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Tutankhamun Exhibition - London

 
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Kharis
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Tutankhamun Exhibition - London Reply with quote

I visited this exhibition last week - the exhibits are stunning.

However, throughout, Tutankhamun is referred to as the son of Akhenaten and his full sister.

Has this parentage been established convincingly or is it an assumption?
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still being debated. A lot of Egyptologists believe the father to be Smenkhkare (Ankhenaten's younger bro) whose GW was Meritaten (Ankhenaten's eldest daughter).
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Kharis
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I had thought.
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well he's the son of the KV55 individual which according to Hawass is Akhenaten and the younger lady mummy from KV35, who is not named. If Hawass as he has stated recently concludes that mummy KV21A is Ankhensenamun, as she is the closest match to the KV62 foetuses, KV55 can not be Akhenaten. So, Hawass' published views on KV55 may need to change as a result.

At the moment I'm leaning towards KV55 being Akhenaten because of the other material in that tomb - magical bricks made for him and the mummy bands that although they have names removed seem to refer to that king.

Therefore KV21A must show that either Ankhensenamun was not fathered by Akhenaten, or is actually Ankhensenamun- tasherit. The latter is depicted and referenced at Amarna and may have been around the same age as Tutankhamun, named as a child of Meritaten (although the information is literally fragmentary).

It has to be considered that Ankhensenamun-tasherit is a child of Meritaten and Smenkhkare, if that king is not actually Nefertiti.

The other key mummy that we will apparently get more information on soon is KV21B, who Hawass said recently is Nefertiti. If KV21B is genetically the mother of KV21A this again raises other questions, and it remains to be seen exactly how that mummy is related to the rest of the family who have been DNA tested.
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Kharis
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know very much about DNA, but is it possible that with so much inter-marriage/breeding among the Amarna family, that exact relationships may be difficult to work out?
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kharis wrote:
I don't know very much about DNA, but is it possible that with so much inter-marriage/breeding among the Amarna family, that exact relationships may be difficult to work out?

You are exactly right. Remember, these guys were nailing their sisters, daughters, nieces, etc. That introduces ambiguity to the DNA results.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kharis wrote:
I don't know very much about DNA, but is it possible that with so much inter-marriage/breeding among the Amarna family, that exact relationships may be difficult to work out?

" A different take on Tut - Egyptian archaeologist shares theory on pharaoh’s lineage " (The Harvard Gazette - Alvin Powell, 11.02.2013)
Quote:
... French Egyptologist Marc Gabolde offered a different interpretation of the DNA evidence on Thursday. Speaking at Harvard’s Science Center, Gabolde said he’s convinced that Tut’s mother was not his father’s sister, but rather his father’s first cousin, Nefertiti.

Nefertiti was already known to be Akhenaten’s wife and in fact the two had six daughters. Gabolde believes they also had a son, Tutankhamun, and that the apparent genetic closeness revealed in the DNA tests was not a result of a single brother-to-sister mating, but rather due to three successive generations of marriage between first cousins.

“The consequence of that is that the DNA of the third generation between cousins looks like the DNA between a brother and sister,” said Gabolde, the director of the archaeological expedition of Université Paul Valery-Montpellier III in the Royal Necropolis at el-Amarna. “I believe that Tutankhamun is the son of Akhenaten and Nefertiti, but that Akhenaten and Nefertiti were cousins.” ...

Greetings, Lutz.
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Kharis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's very interesting, Lutz - thanks for the quote.

It seems we are no nearer to establishing beyond a doubt, the parentage of Tutankhamun.

The organisers of the exhibition, on the other hand, appear to have decided they were Akhenaten and one of his full sisters.
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kharis - dig out your back issues of Kmt magazine, as a few issues ago they went through this in detail.
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Kharis
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irt-akhu wrote:
Kharis - dig out your back issues of Kmt magazine, as a few issues ago they went through this in detail.


Unfortunately, I do not have this publication.
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you may want to consider subscribing. It is a quarterly publication and really is the preeminent source for a layperson egyptologist. Articles are written by real egyptologists.

http://www.kmtjournal.com/
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention (this forum will not let me edit my posts!) that Kmt is celebrating their ḥb-sb. Not bad for a niche publication!
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irt-akhu wrote:
you may want to consider subscribing. It is a quarterly publication and really is the preeminent source for a layperson egyptologist. Articles are written by real egyptologists. ...

Qualitatively at least as valuable, and cheaper... :

" Ancient Egypt Magazine "

Other advantages : the offer of electronic form, easy pay with PayPal, instant download, no subscription.
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, thanks for the link Lutz. Looks like some of the authors get around - Aidan Dodsen, for example, has written for both.
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Robson
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
the apparent genetic closeness revealed in the DNA tests was not a result of a single brother-to-sister mating, but rather due to three successive generations of marriage between first cousins.



Is not possible to priduce this genetic profile this way. It is more likely if KV55 and KV35YL were both cross and parallel cousins (kins through both parents). However, I'm stil skeptical about the indentity KV55 = Akhenaten. There's no way at all for someone with his described pelvic structure be someone above the 25 years old.
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