Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Nicholas Reeves : The Burial of Nefertiti? (2015)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 32, 33, 34
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Thieuke
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:18 pm    Post subject: genetic issue with the official line Reply with quote

The official line from Egypt or Zahi Hawass has some issues. The two foetuses in Tut's grave where his children and they were female line relatives of Queen Tiye's mother but not through Tiye and Amenhotep III.
KV 55 cannot be both the paternal and maternal grandfather of the foetuses and we know of no other wife for Tut, while it's likely KV21A could very well be their mother. She is related to the Royal line but not the daughter of KV 55.

There are several ways to solve this problem:
1 children were of Tut with a secondary wife and not the Great Royal Wife Anchesenamen
2 Anchesenamen was not the daughter of Achenaten and Nefertiti
3 KV 55 is the paternal grandfather, however he was not Achenaten but his younger brother Smenkhkare. Leaving the option for Achenaten and Nefertiti to be the maternal grandparents and Nefertiti being a female line relative of descendant of Thuya.

Of course we also have to take into account the option that the DNA samples were contaminated and as such unusable for conclusions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karnsculpture
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 314

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: genetic issue with the official line Reply with quote

Thieuke wrote:
The official line from Egypt or Zahi Hawass has some issues. The two foetuses in Tut's grave where his children and they were female line relatives of Queen Tiye's mother but not through Tiye and Amenhotep III.


This, then, points towards the old theories of Nefertiti (and therefore her daughters and granddaughters) being in a line from a son or daughter of Yuya and Thuya - one candidate is Aanen who it seems was dead by Year 30 of Amenhotep III. This would explain why nobody is named as Nefertiti or Mutnojmet's father, and why they are associated with their wetnurse Tey and her husband Ay. Of course Ay is the other candidate but there's no firm evidence that he was a son of Yuya and Thuya. As Tiye's probably orphaned niece she may have been a good choice as Akhenaten's wife.

So, in that scenario, KV21A could be Ankhensenamun and the only individual not fitting in is KV55, who would likely be Smenkhkare, a younger brother of Akhenaten. It wouldn't be the first time that a younger brother of a king ended up succeeding him if no sons were available. Of course as with Tut we have a problem in that Smenkhkare's only known wife is Meritaten, who wasn't his full sister so can't be KV35YL. This opens up the possibility of Baketaten, attested at Amarna with Tiye as a candidate for the assumed sister-wife of Smenkhkare.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karnsculpture
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 314

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the post above, on reading about Anen, his name has an interesting link to that of Nefertiti - both have the first glyph in their names reversed. This fact is pointed out in this paper -

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40000203?seq=1

Anen also had a son and 4 daughters, sadly no names survive, but this does open the possibility that he was survived by the 2 individuals I propose above, Nefertiti and Mutnojmet/Mutenberet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
irt-akhu
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'man in a hat' has repeatedly said KV21B is Nefertiti. He announced it last year and has consistently said so. If we decide to go see his lecture when he comes to town in a couple of months it will be interesting to see if he has backed off of that. In the meantime, real articles written by real Egyptologists like Aiden Dodsen as published in places like KMT Journal have compelling analyses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robson
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
In addition to the post above, on reading about Anen, his name has an interesting link to that of Nefertiti - both have the first glyph in their names reversed. This fact is pointed out in this paper -

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40000203?seq=1

Anen also had a son and 4 daughters, sadly no names survive, but this does open the possibility that he was survived by the 2 individuals I propose above, Nefertiti and Mutnojmet/Mutenberet.


Very interestingpaper. Thank you for sharing it. Looking forward for the tomb's clearence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4098
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

" Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens -> Ay and Nefertiti (Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:25 pm) "

" Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens -> Ay and Nefertiti (Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:53 pm) "
_________________
Ägyptologie Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
irt-akhu
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
In addition to the post above, on reading about Anen, his name has an interesting link to that of Nefertiti - both have the first glyph in their names reversed. This fact is pointed out in this paper -

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40000203?seq=1

Anen also had a son and 4 daughters, sadly no names survive, but this does open the possibility that he was survived by the 2 individuals I propose above, Nefertiti and Mutnojmet/Mutenberet.

Wouldn't let me download. You need to have an account.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4098
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSTOR - Terms and Conditions of Use :

Quote:
... People who come to JSTOR directly for access. This includes individuals who:

- register for a free individual account that enables access to a limited number of available read-only Content items for fixed periods of time (“Read Only Users”); ...

_________________
Ägyptologie Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Robson
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]
Wouldn't let me download. You need to have an account.[/quote]

You can make a page by page print screen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Thieuke
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:17 pm    Post subject: Nefertiti's parentage/KV 55 Reply with quote

Even if Aanen was Nefertiti's father he would needed to have married a female line relative of his mother Thuya for the foetuses of his granddaughter Anchesenamen to carry a female line link to Thuya. Now i find it perfectly acceptable to assume he may have married his first cousin (daughter of his mother's sister) or even a further maternal line relative. With several children Nefertiti might very well have been one of them and after her parents died the idea of aunt Tiye taking responsibility for her nieces and placing them in the care of Ay and his wife Tey and keeping them close to court is plausible. As prince Amenhotep was not the expected heir a marriage might have been planned for him with his first cousin before his brother died. Crown prince Thutmoses might very well have been expected to marry one of his sisters.
You might even suggest that after he died, the family learnt their lesson and married the youngest son Smenkhkare to one of his sisters. Their marriage may have resulted in a son (Tut) before the wife died. By the time Smenkhkare succeeded he had remarried his niece Meritaen to claim a right to the throne as the successor of his sister-in-law and first cousin Nefertiti.

Tiye's brother Aanen being Nefertiti's father does not solve the issue of KV 55 not being able to be both the paternal and maternal grandfather of the foetuses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4098
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzwilliam Museum Cambridge - GLANVILLE LECTURE

Nicholas Reeves : Nefertiti - Hidden Presence in the Tomb of Tutankhamun

Wednesday 29 April 2020, 5.30 pm

Room 9, Mill Lane Lecture Rooms, Cambridge

Free, BOOKING ESSENTIAL. Email: glanville@fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk .
_________________
Ägyptologie Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 32, 33, 34
Page 34 of 34

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group