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Which Deity is this?
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Fof
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pics, Lutz. VERY different from when I was last there. Thanks for posting.
With the links you provided, I have lots of bedtime reading, going forward. Rolling Eyes
irt-akhu - thank you also, especially for picking up on the O29. I did wonder what that glyph was and if it had any relevence. With my very limited knowledge, I did know that determinatives were use, with 1 or 2 glyphs. I didn't realise that more than 2 were used. Back to the bedtime reading. Idea
Are there any markers used to deliniate where the name/word ends and the determinatives begin, or just familiarity with the script?
Again, thanks guys.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auguste Mariette, Abydos - Description des fouilles 1, Ville antique, Temple de Séti, 1869, mentions on page 11 another hieroglyph which follows the still present names of the gods on the pillars (and if you know that Cool , you can also recognize it on the photo) : Gardiner Y1 - papyrus roll.

According to a friend, Y1 is in this case determinative of O29. Evidence of this has been known since the Middle Kingdom (Wörterbuch der Ägyptischen Sprache I, p. 161).

Fof wrote:
... Are there any markers used to deliniate where the name/word ends and the determinatives begin, or just familiarity with the script? ...

As far as I know a determinative is such a "marker". Recognizing the words end is probably a question of practice ...
So, here in this case, C18 (crouching god with composite crown) and Y1 (papyrus roll with two ends of the tie) are determinatives. R8 (gods flag) and O29 (pillar) I would regard / identify as ideograms.

But I have to say, I'm just a layperson in questions about the writing and translation. Sad

Greetings, Lutz.
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Fof
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant!
So, the glyph under O29, is Y1. I did wonder if O29 was Y1, but the outline was wrong.
You learn things every day.
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Y1 can be a determinative of O29 for aA 'great'. Gardiner shows this as does the Vygus dictionary and Boris' update of the Faulkner dictionary. But, I cannot find an example where Y1 is used with aA nTr 'great god'. So, I am not 100% in agreement.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irt-akhu wrote:
... But, I cannot find an example where Y1 is used with aA nTr 'great god'. So, I am not 100% in agreement.

You mean apart from the evidences / examples discussed here (on the pillars of the temple Sethy I in Abydos)? May I ask, where did you look for further evidence?
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked my dictionaries - Vygus, Gardiner, Boris' Faulkner.
Are you talking about that French paper in your prior post, Lutz? What page is it on?
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irt-akhu wrote:
I checked my dictionaries - Vygus, Gardiner, Boris' Faulkner. ...

And as you yourself noticed, everyone records the word in this spelling ... Not enough evidence?

irt-akhu wrote:
... Are you talking about that French paper in your prior post, Lutz? What page is it on?

Why don't you click on the link that leads you to the download offer of University of Heidelberg?

And if that's still not enough, look at the inscriptions on a relief in the tomb of Cheruef in Thebes-West (TT 192). The relief shows Amenhotep IV / Akhenaton accompanied by his mother, Queen Teje, during a wine sacrifice in front of Re-Harachte and Maat. Or look at inscriptions in Karnak Temple, or in Edfu, and so on ...
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irt-akhu
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I checked all those dictionaries and cannot find Y1 used with aA nTr. And yes, was asking for an example off of a tomb/monument wall. Will search for some of those examples you mention. Amazing memory and knowledge you have.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Tomb of Kheruef - Theban Tomb 192. - Chicago : The Oriental Institute, 1980. - ISBN : 0-918986-23-0. - XX, 80 p., 88 pl. - Plate 9 :


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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexikon der Ägyptischen Götter und Götterbezeichnungen I-VII. - [Orientalia Lovaniensia Analecta - OLA 110-116]. - Leuven : Peeters, 2002. - ISBN : 9042911468.

Vol.IV - p. 401 :



Vol.IV - p. 400 :


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found one, too - in the lower RH corner below Ra.

https://osirisnet.net/tombes/artisans/nakhtamon335/photo/nakhtamon_tt335_tb_fusion_01.jpg
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