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Egyptian Gods and Goddesses
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know of a Greek myth that claims that Isis came to Egypt from Greece? Apparently it says that she was a cow goddess who was connected with Zeus (a lover perhaps?) and that she had another name before she arrived in Egypt and became queen Isis.

Maybe that's why there are some claims that isis was a Greco Roman goddess. But I think the Egyptian myths are older than this Greek one.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard of the myth with Zeus and the Bull, but I heard it then became the sign Taurus...it was some lover of Zeus, I just can't remember who
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Europa maybe?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Europa was the daughter of King Agenor of Kanaan. Zeus fell in love with Europa, and approached to her in the shape of a white bull. Europa was fascinated by the beauty of the animal, climbed on it's back, and allowed him to carry her to the sea. Suddenly the bull started to run so fast, that she wasn't able to get away. Zeus carried her over the sea to the island of Krete, where sche gave birth to 3 sons: Minos, Rhadamathis and sarpedon. When Zeus left her, she married Astorios, who adopted her sons.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Io was seduced by Zeus, and turned into a cow by either Zues or his wife Hera.
Io was forced to wander around until she settled in egypt.

Having thus settled in Egypt, Io made a statue of Demeter, and this goddess was then called 'Isis'. And after that, the Egyptians also gave Io the name 'Isis', and Io-Isis, they say, was made a goddess by Zeus.

part of this comes from:
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Io.html

It sounds more like Io was identified with Isis. Isis worship was so much older than the Greek gods that it seems impossible for Isis to have originally come from Greece.

I found this quote rather interesting because it's a statement from the classical world about the identification of the different goddesses
Quote:
Isis came to be worshipped in a large part of the world as a great goddess, and her manifold nature becomes apparent in Apuleius' invocation, when he says:


"Blessed Queen of Heaven,, whether you are pleased to be known as Ceres [Demeter] ... who in joy at the finding of your lost daughter Proserpine [Persephone] ... gave our forefathers bread raised from the fertile soil of Eleusis; or whether as celestial Venus [Aphrodite] ... who at the time of the first Creation coupled the sexes in mutual love ... or whether as Artemis, the physician sister of Apollo, reliever of the birth pangs of women, and now adored in the ancient shrine atEphesus; or whether as dread Proserpine [Persephone] to whom the owl cries at night, whose triple face is potent against the malice of ghosts ... you who wander through many sacred groves, and are propitiated with many different rites ... I beseech you [etc.]." [Apuleius, The Golden Ass]

And the goddess answers him in similar way:


"The Phrygians call me ... Mother of the Gods; the Athenians, call me Cecropian Artemis; for the islanders of Cyprus I am Paphian Aphrodite; for the archers of Crete I am Dictynna; for the Sicilians Proserpine [Persephone]; and for the Eleusinians their ancient Mother of the Corn [Demeter]. Some know me as Juno [Hera], some as Bellona of the Battles, others as Hecate ... and the Egyptians ... call me by my true name, namely, Queen Isis." [Apuleius, The Golden Ass]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
Quote:
But if the stela says the name of Isis, then maybe this is the evidence that isis was worshipped back then...why doesn't anyone accept it? (I ain't an Egyptologist so I don't know the whole system of how these things work LOL)


If a 26th dyn. stela says there was an Isis temple at Giza in the 4th dyn. it shoudn't be accepted as a fact. A scientist looks for confirmation, preferably contemporary evidence. When such evidence can't be found, the text is regarded as highly dubious. Researchers did find names of various gods who were worshipped in the 4th dyn. on the plateau such as Hathor, Bastet, Thoth, Neith,... but no Isis.
The stela also talks about a 4th dyn. temple of Osiris, but again no contemporary evidence can be found to support this claim.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And in this case almost 2000 years had passed.
We don't know if the existence of the Isis/Osiris temple was an egyptian myth or an actual recollection of a temple.

It is intriguing though.
There must have been enough of the mortuary temple of this Queen left to (re)construct some temple on the site.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh...I wan't aware that the stela was from a later dynasty...I thought that was from that time too!!! And I always thought that isis and Osiris were worshipped at the time the pyramids were being built! I thought the pyramid texts were written at the time though...
And I thought Bastet was a relatively late deity though...I heard she was only really worshipped in later periods, but I may be wrong.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and another few questions, changing the subject I know, but it's been bugging me...

1. Is there a dolphin deity in Egyptian mythology??? I saw somewhere that there was a dolphin goddess but I'm not sure if that's true.

2. Some of you may remember me posting a thread about Horus and his parental confusions, ie. it may not simply be Isis and Osiris, but also Hathor, Ra, Rennutet, or even Neith and Sobek...but here's another thing that's making this Horus's parent's dilemma evn more headache inducing...apparently the parents of the famous 'child Horus' who's usually the son of Isis and Osiris are actually two obscure deities-one's called Hamehit (I think) and the other one begins with B-I can't remember though. Then I'd also heard that Horus was born from an acacia??? I think that's a confusion with the Osiris myth where the dead Osiris was encased in a tree.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
2. Some of you may remember me posting a thread about Horus and his parental confusions, ie. it may not simply be Isis and Osiris, but also Hathor, Ra, Rennutet, or even Neith and Sobek...but here's another thing that's making this Horus's parent's dilemma evn more headache inducing...apparently the parents of the famous 'child Horus' who's usually the son of Isis and Osiris are actually two obscure deities-one's called Hamehit (I think) and the other one begins with B-I can't remember though. Then I'd also heard that Horus was born from an acacia??? I think that's a confusion with the Osiris myth where the dead Osiris was encased in a tree.

I wouldn't know for sure about the dolphin goddess, but my guess would be it had something to do with Kretensic influences then? Anyway, about Horus: the gods you refer to as their parents are indeed Hat-Mehit and Ba-nebdjet from the city of Mendes. But I think I replied in that same thread - I wouldn't know where it exactly is though - saying this is merely one of many myths "taken over" by local cults to ensure a larger prominence and influence to their own local gods. It's a lot like how the Romans reached back to Homer's Iliad for their "descent". They claimed Aeneas was their ancestor, making their own race and culture seem to have a higher standing. Same goes for some local Egyptian lore, where a more powerful or nationally better known god was incorporated in city-myths and thereby enlarge the status of these "petty gods".
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hat-mehit (foremost of the fish) was a fish goddess by the way and Ba-nebdjet (ram of Mendes) obviously a ram god. Wink
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, maybe it was the fish goddess I was thinking about. That was it. Would make more sense because there weren't any dolphins in the nile, but lots of fish.

Oh, and who is Hapocrates? Is that another name for baby Horus? I saw somewhere that he was the name of Isis's son. Sounds like a greek name.

Also, I've seen some sites that claim that isis had two sons. One was Horus, and there was another one. Maybe it was Hapocrates?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harpocrates is a Greek form of something like Hor-pa-chered. I'm not a 100% sure about that form and to be honest, it's way too late to go check up (combined with the fact that I can be very very lazy Wink ) but it means Horus the Child. So these are indeed one and the same. I doubt that Isis is ever mentioned to have a second child, but according to some sources Horus did have a step-brother, from the union between Osiris and Nephthys, Isis' sister. Sounds like The Bold and The Beautiful to me. Maybe this is what you stumbled upon?
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The child of Osiris and Nephtys is Anubis. I have seen some version of the myths where he is indeed horus's stepbrother.

But have seen some sources that claim Isis had 2 children-2 sons, who were Horus and Anubis (normally considered Nephtys's son though) or another god who I really can't remember the name of right now.

I've also seen Bastet given as a daughter of Isis and a twin sister of Horus, and one site claims that some statues of Isis originally had 2 children on them, but the second child was knocked off by Christians who wanted to reuse the Isis statues as statues of Virgin Mary and baby Jesus...now that's a very controversial claim...I know that the imageries of Isis and Mary are similar, but i've never heard of Christians mistakenly worshipping Isis in this way...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
I know that the imageries of Isis and Mary are similar, but i've never heard of Christians mistakenly worshipping Isis in this way...

They assimilated the Isis and Horus imagery into Christian tradition, that's a fact, but as soon as you give another name to what can't be else than a rather abstract depiction (it's not like the genuine face of either Mary or Isis would've been known at this date), can you still speak of the statue or image being Isis? I mean, an image can have been made, representing Isis, but by giving it Mary's name, it "becomes" Mary. But this didn't happen frequently: most imagery of Mary around this time was based upon the Isis-imagery, but was made anew.
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