Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ancient Egyptian Music
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Homework Help
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
WendyQLD
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:33 am    Post subject: Ancient Egyptian Music Reply with quote

Hi,

My name is Alex and I am doing a project on King Rameses II.

I am trying to find some ancient egyptian music for my project and am having trouble.

I have found some music but it is in MIDI form and I need either WAV or MP3.

Does anyone know where I can download free ancient egyptian music from or where I can download a music converter that will allow me to burn the music onto a CD?

I'm running out of time!

Thanks for any replies.



Alex
(Australia)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there was a free download site that had Egyptian music, I'd be over the moon and would be downloading loads-but most free download sites are, erm, illegal...and to tell you the truth, there is't really any ancient Egyptian music, because that style of music died out thousands of years ago I'm afraid...
However, there is a lot of modern Egyptian music which is really middle eastern music, but i do have quite a few CDs of music inspired by ancient Egypt, they are really lovely too. They may not be exactly like ancient Egyptian music (they didn't have any recording equipment back then, of course) but they are inspired by ancient Egypt and middle eastern music.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there is't really any ancient Egyptian music, because that style of music died out thousands of years ago


Isisinacrisis is correct, unfortunately. We cannot even have any realistic idea what the music of the ancient Egyptians sounded like. I've seen many CDs touted as "ancient Egyptian," but what they really are composed of is Arabic- or Middle-Eastern-inspired music. Well, that's okay, because I enjoy that style of music myself. But all we have from ancient Egypt are the instruments with which they preformed their music, like the sistrum. Who knows what tempo they used, what words they sang (though we do have surviving papyri that would appear to be the lyrics to songs), what cadence they followed when chanting?

As soon as someone invents a time machine, I'll buy the first ticket! Very Happy
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Middle eastern music too, even if it may not be 'ancient Egyptian', I love Arabic music.

http://egyptsound.free.fr/toc.htm
I just found this site about ancient Egyptian music-very interesting it is too. This is from a group of Egyptologists and researchers who are trying their best to reconstruct what music in ancient Egypt may have sounded like-they have managed to reconstruct some of the instruments used, like flutes, based on ancient instruments kept in museums. There are some short mp3 recordings of these instruments free for downloading on this site.

This quote is pretty interesting...

Quote:
The Copts (Christians of Egypt) now claim to have inherited their religious hymns from their forefathers, the Pharaohs. These hymns probably convey traces of this tradition, which can also be found in some traditional songs of the fellahs of the Nile valley. For the musicologists this represents a huge amount of material to explore, up to the standards of this impressive civilization.


It's funny really because I also know a website of Coptic music with free mp3s (legal ones!) available.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting about the Copts. I didn't know that about their hymns...but I don't know much about the Copts as a religious group.

I think it was you, isisinacrisis, you provided us a link to that Coptic music website some time ago. I know for certain I saved it to my Favorites folder. Maybe I'll look for it when I get home and give the place another visit. Right now I'm being a very bad boy and am playing on Egyptian Dreams while I'm sitting here bored at work.

Oh well, when the boss is away (even for a short time), I'm in the mood to play.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found it!!!
http://www.davidensemble.com/downloads.htm
This site contains coptic music mp3s-some of the songs are quite beautiful, I think. The site also mentions the possible pharaonic origins of Coptic hymns, it claims that the melodies of these hymns are from ancient Egyptian religious music, but the lyrics are in Coptic, and are Christian hymns. It may be possible that these could be the last vestiges of ancient Egyptian music, after all, the copts are the descendants of the ancient Egyptians, and their language is the last stage of the Egyptian language...
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It may be possible that these could be the last vestiges of ancient Egyptian music, after all, the copts are the descendants of the ancient Egyptians, and their language is the last stage of the Egyptian language...


Yeah, it's possible. If they're language can hold traces of the ancient tongue, their liturgical hymns can contain vestiges of the ancient sounds. I grew up in the Catholic mass, so I wonder if I'd recognize any of the Coptic hymns. I'll have to experiment with the website you provided.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed this thread.

This may be a stupid question, but here it goes:
You often hear that the hymn to the Aten shows some similarity to Psalm 104. Do you think it's possible that the old hyms were spoken/chanted in the same way that a psalm is?
(Bear with me: I'm not catholic, so I wouldn't really even know how Psalm 104 is "performed")
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This may be a stupid question, but here it goes:
You often hear that the hymn to the Aten shows some similarity to Psalm 104. Do you think it's possible that the old hyms were spoken/chanted in the same way that a psalm is?


There's nothing stupid about that question. I think it's an excellent one. Taking ancient Israel as an example, we know literacy there did not become truly widespread until about the reign of King Josiah. Prior to that, though writing certainly did exist in Israel, the Hebrews were largely an oral culture; later editors of the Bible far overemphasized textuality in ancient Israel. Stories and legends were told in the villages, and what's one way to help remember a story when neither you nor pretty much anyone you know can read or write? Why, by turning that story into the rhythms of song, of course.

Given that, I think not only the Hymn to the Aten was a song but so were a great many ancient Egyptian poems and prose that we know now only in written form.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reminded of a comment I read ages ago on an old message board that has now been closed down, this was about a year before I joined this one. Anyway, one person there said that 'Egyptians thought harmonious, rhythmic, in-tune music attracted evil spirits, and they played dissonant, out of tune, inharmonious music in temples and shook their sistrums irregularly to fend off demons and invoke the gods.' I also saw another book that said that 'Egyptian music was soft and flowing, but never had rhythm.'

How do those people claim to 'know' these things? Now, maybe the ancient Egyptians madly shook their sistrums to 'cleanse' the temple but I seriously don't believe Egyptian music was out of tune or had no rhythm. Didn't the Egyptians have percussion instruments, drums and clappers and so on, to keep the beat? They probably had different scales and keys to western music, maybe something along the lines of middle eastern music, or even coptic music, but that doesn't make the music 'dissonant' or 'out of tune'! And the idea that music that was 'in tune' and sounded nice 'attracts demons' sounds ludicrous to me.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, isisinacrisis. Wazzzup!

Quote:
...one person there said that 'Egyptians thought harmonious, rhythmic, in-tune music attracted evil spirits, and they played dissonant, out of tune, inharmonious music in temples and shook their sistrums irregularly to fend off demons and invoke the gods.'


This does seem pretty far-fetched to me. It doesn't take a genius to realize we really have no way of knowing what ancient Egyptian music even sounded like. But for all I know this person may have read something about some obscure translation from a wall relief that instructed an ancient musician to do so--my expertise is hardly ancient Egyptian music, I must confess. But your conjecture about using discordant tunes to scare away harmful spirits rings true to me, at least based on what some other cultures were (and are) known to do.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, but I seriously doubt that all ancient Egyptian music-both sacred and secular-was discordant and out of tune, as this person implied!
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Osiris II
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1752

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you, isisinacrisis. Basically, music is meant to entertain people. I cannot see, at a banquet say, of a group of musician plain discordant music--it would make your ears bleed!
I have to agree with kmt_sesh on one subject, though. You'd probably successfully drive away evil spirits banging on a drum or shaking sistra!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that could be right, about the chasing off demons with a shake of a sistrum! But I think the hymns to the gods and secular music was more harmonious. I'm also sure they had some kind of rhythm too-didn't they have drums and clappers to keep the beat?
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daniella
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm also sure they had some kind of rhythm too-didn't they have drums and clappers to keep the beat?

Yeah there are several wall paintings which show woman beating on drums and I've seen a clapper made from ivory in the shape of human hands. I believe that they were used to keep the beat.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Homework Help All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group