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The Power Behind The Throne
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: The Power Behind The Throne Reply with quote

Yup, a long post Smile Read at your own peril Laughing

Sesen, I was thinking about our conversations when I wrote this Wink

_____________________________________________________________

There are several powerful families of nobles that arise in Ancient Egypt. During the eighteenth dynasty there are at least four such families. During the reign of Hatshepsut we see the royal favorite Senenmut appear at court. Senenmut was apparently from noble birth, but his brother Senimen managed to find himself a respected position at court as well.


The family of Senenmut (temp. Hatshepsut).
Senenmut was the owner of two tombs in thebes, TT71 and TT353. Senenmut was the son of Ramose and Hatnefert. Senenmut held the titles of Steward, Great Steward, Overseer of the Granary, and Overseer of the Royal Works.He is also known from several statues showing him with the royal princess Neferure.
His brother Senimen is depicted in TT71. Senimen was a Steward and Nurse of the God’s Wife. The God’s Wife here is the royal princess Neferure. Senimen was married to a lady called Senemiah. Senimen had his own tomb: TT252.
In Senenmut’s tomb there is mention of a third brother named Minhotep, who was a wab-priest.
This family’s power was closely linked to Hatshepsut, and their influence may have very well dissolved after the demise of the Queen.

The family of Amethu, Neferweben, User and Rekhmire (temp Thutmosis III – Amenhotep II)
Our knowledge of thie family spans four generations and the family includes four viziers (!). Amethu called Ahmose (TT83) was governor of the town and Vizier during the early period of Tuthmosis III. He was married to Ta-Amethu. He had two sons: Neferweben and User(-Amen).

User (TT61 and TT131) was governor of the town and Vizier under Tuthmosis III. He was married to the lady Tuiu. His tomb shows four daughters, mentioning his daughter Ahmose by name, and several sons. I could not find any other names of his sons and daughters.

Neferweben is mentioned in the tomb of his son Rekhmire. Neferweben was Vizier and wab-priest of Amen. Neferweben does not seem to have a tomb in Thebes. The only Neferweben buried in Thebes is a royal butler from the 18th dynasty. Neferweben, son of Amenthu, is mentioned in TT100 (Rekhmire’s tomb) and tomb C15 the tomb of an unnamed overseer of the two houses of gold and silver.

Rekhmire (TT100), son of Neferweben and Bet, was governor of the town and vizier from late Tuthmosis III to Amenhotep II. Rekhmire was married to a lady named Meryt. His tomb shows quite a few sons and daughters. The sons are named Senusert, Mery, Menkheperresonb, Amenhotep, Neferweben, and another son possibly went by the name Baki.

Some of the images of Rekhmire’s sons have been attacked, and it seems that the family lost it’s prominent position at court. The timing here is rather intriguing as there is some evidence of a power struggle at the end of the reign of Amenhotep II.
It may very well be that Rekhmire’s family backed the wrong party in this struggle.


The family of Ahmose called Humay, Sennefer and Amenemopet called Pairy. (Thutmosis III – Amenhotep II)
Ahmose called Humay (TT224) was the son of Senusert and Taidy. Ahmose-Humay was a high ranking official in the administration of the God’s Wife. He was the Overseer of the estates of the God’s Wife and the overseer of the two granaries of the God’s Wife Ahmose-Nefertari. Ahmose –Humay was married to a lady called Nub, who held the title of royal concubine (this may be the same as the title royal ornament, but I’m not sure).
Ahmose Humay and Nub had two sons named Sennefer and Amenemopet Pairy who may both have become so important that they were buried in the King’s Valley.

Sennefer (TT96) was mayor of the Southern City (Thebes) and he was steward of Amenhotep I. (Must be referring to a position in the mortuary temple of Amenhotep I?). He was also chancellor to Amenhotep II, overseer of the granaries of Amen, overseer of the Fields of Amen, High Priest of Amen in Menisut and superintendent of Amen's Gardens.
Sennefer is depicted in his tomb with wive(s) by the name of Sentnay, Sentnefert who were royal nurses and a wife named Meryt. His wive(s) may also include Senetmi and Senetemiah, but these may refer to Sentnay? It is not clear if these are all names referring to one woman, or if Sennefer had multiple wives. Sennefer had at least three daughters and a son (no name given for the son to my knowledge). The daughter most prominently displayed in the tomb is Mut-Tuy. His other daughters are named Mutnefert and Nefertiry. Howard Carter speculated that Sennefer and Sentnay were buried in KV42, based on canopic jars


Amenemopet-Pairy (TT29 and KV48) was married to a lady called Weretmaetef and they had a son called Paser. Amenemopet-Pairy was governor of the town and vizier under Amenhotep II.


The family from Akhmin: Yuya and Tuya, Queen Tiye , Aye and possibly Queen Nefertiti (The Amarna period: Amenhotep III – Aye)
The first members of the family that appear on the scene are Yuya and Tuya (KV46). When Amenhotep III the Magnificent came to the throne as a young boy, he quickly married Tiye, the daughter of Yuya and Tuya. Yuya was a Master of the Horse and High Priest of Min, and thus held high positions in both the army and the priesthood. Yuya and Tuya are known to have had another son named Anen, who became Second Prophet of Amen.

Many assume that Yuya and Tuya were also the parents of Aye. Aye became an important advisor to Akhenaten and later Tutankhamen. Aye took the throne after the death of Tutankhamen. Aye was married to a lady called Tey, who was the wet-nurse to Queen Nefertiti. Some think that Aye may have been the father of Queen Nefertiti, and her sister named Mutnodjemet (who may have later married the Pharaoh Horemheb).

Members of this family remained in important positions until the Ramesside period.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sesen, I was thinking about our conversations when I wrote this

Cool Very Happy I feel honoured to have been thought of.

I love your compilations of people and their lives and reading again of Senenmut reminded me of another interesting man who lived then - Ineni.

He was a Overseer of the Granary of Amuns Domain, Superintendant of the Workmen in the Karnak Treasuries, Superintendant of the Royal buildings (under Thutmose I) and Hereditary Nobleman (or r 'pat).
Reading of the hundreds of trees depicted in his tomb (TT81) and his position in the Royal building projects, I wondered if it were he in fact who designed Hatshepsuts temple and was involved in the planting of the trees and gardens there - rather than Senenmut who tends to get the credit.

Ineni has a wife Thuau, sister Ahhotep, his father Ineni (snr)
Another interesting thing about him, aside from his building projects, was that it appears to be him who initiates the new trend in tomb construction in cutting a royal tomb for Thutmose I in the Kings Valley.

A remarkable man he lived through the reigns of 5 kings - from Amenhotep I to Thutmose III - not a bad effort.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Ineni is definitely an interesting individual. He did have a very long illustrious career.

I did just find another important family. Again with a person with a very long career:

The Pen-nekhbet family from Nekhen.

Ahmose Pennekhbet was the son of a man called Amenhotep.
Ahmose Pen-nekhbet was General, Vizier and Treasurer. As well as the tutor to Princess Neferure, the daughter of Hatshepsut.
He was married to the lady Ipu who was the nurse of Thutmosis III.

Ahmose Pen-nekhbet and Ipu had a daughter named Satiah, who would become wife and Queen to Tuthmosis III.
His son Useramen would became Vizier (Useramen was buried in TT131)

Some of this info comes from:
http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/personen/pennechb/pennechb.htm

It's the site of Dr. Karl H. Leser (http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/start_e.htm)

His site is worth looking at.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's the site of Dr. Karl H. Leser (http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/start_e.htm)

His site is worth looking at.

Its got pictures up now Smile When I first looked at it there were'nt any.
The area in front of the tombs looks very well pathed with steps and all. Even people there. When I tried to go to El Kab the Tourist officer looked at me like I was insane Laughing I may have well asked to fly to Pluto. Its really the only regret, just could'nt afford my own police convoy.
This website was the only one I'd come across that named Ahmose PenNekhbet as the father of Vizier User. No one else seems to.
The title Kings first son of El Kab is an interesting one.

Quote:
Amenemopet-Pairy (TT29 and KV48) was married to a lady called Weretmaetef and they had a son called Paser


Shocked Another Paser, I didn't have him. How intriguing, a nephew then of Sennefer. As we know this name crops up a couple of times in Tuya and Yuya's later family.

The Ahmose Humay that you have here - I wonder if he is the same as the one I have as a Supervisor of the Harem and a Tutor to the King (Amen II)?
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I enter as a hawk, I come out as a benu bird in the morning.-- Pert em-Hru, ch. 13
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

His website contains a lot of information I had not heard. I have never seen Ahmose Pennekhbet as the father of Satiah either.
He gets some of his information from the Porter and Moss publications from the Griffith Institute. I have the book describing the Theban Tombs. From what he wrote and cited he must have their volume on the tombs in El Kab as well. Plus it looks like he has access to some of the articles written about the tombs.

His material is so well researched and documented that I tend to trust his comments.

Another interesting comment on his site is that Senimen is NOT a brother of Senenmut (or very unlikely). He states that this misconception is the result of a bad interpretation made by Sethe. The text and the images associated that would lead to the identification of Senimen as a brother don't really go together.


The info I have for Ahmose Humay is rather terse.
His titles shown in my Porter and Moss volume are all linked to the estate of the god's wife. His wife Nub is a royal concubine (whatever that means exactly). So he may have had some close connections with the royal family. Ahmose Humay is not a very common name.
His son was married to a royal nurse (or possibly two nurses), so the family must have had connections to the royal harem.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really confused!!

I was looking through my book by Porter and Moss and sure enough, User (also named Amenuser in some places) is shown as co-vizier with his elderly father in TT131.

The fun part is that Dr Lager claims that the aging vizier (and father of the younger one) is Ahmose Pennekhbet, while P&M says the aging vizier is Amethu called Ahmose.

Could it be that Amethu called Ahmose is the same person as Ahmose Pennekhbet??? I had never made that connection / identification!

If this were true we do have one VERY well connected family.
Ahmose (Pennekhbet / Amethu) would be General, Vizier, and the father of User (Vizier), Neferweben (also Vizier), Amenmose and Amenhotep (part of the administration of the Amen cult), Akheperkare (Priest of Monthu)

Ahmose's wife is referred to as Ta-amethu ('she of amethu' - named in reference to her husband?). If Ta-amethu is Ipu, the royal nurse, then there's more of a connection to court.

Ahmose Pennekhbet was tutor to Princess Neferure, and then his daughter Satiah was Queen to Tuthmosis III!

I wonder if Amethu / Ahmose / Pennekhbet really are one and the same person?
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am really confused!!
I wonder if Amethu / Ahmose / Pennekhbet really are one and the same person?

Wink That sinking feeling?!
In my notes I have the two names together written in pencil - lol - this means pending firm evidence!
It would help if we knew exactly what the actual textual or whatever evidence for Ahmose Pen Nekhbet was regarding his connection to User and Neferweben.
I put much more faith in their statements than I would in some other sites, but I like to know what the primary source of the information comes from.
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I enter as a hawk, I come out as a benu bird in the morning.-- Pert em-Hru, ch. 13
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the tomb of Ahmose Pennekhbet in El Kab is not well documented.

If Ahmose Pennekhbet is identical to Amethu called Ahmose, then he had two tombs, and I don't know if he would have been buried in Thebes (TT83) or in El Kab .

If his tomb in El KAb is anything like the one from the Ahmose son of Ebana Family, then a lot of information may exist about family relations.

I did read that Ahmose Pennekhbet shared a tomb in El Kab may have shared a tomb with his brother Khaemwese?

Talking about Ahmose son of Ebana, that family is interesting too.
Ahmose son of Ebana (his mother I think) was married to Iput. They had several children. Their daughter Kem’s husband Atefrura was tutor to Prince Wadjmose.

Kem and Atefrura had several children and of those Paheri was the one who rose to prominence. Paheri was tutor to Prince Wadjmose (son of Tuthmosis I) and Prince Amenmose. He was also nomarch (governer) of Nekhen.

It would not surprise me of the families of both generals would have risen to prominence. They were both long lived and had served their coutry well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahmose son of Abana is a fascinating character and its funny that you mention him as I've just been reading a Aidon Dodson book and there is a picture from his tomb at El Kab on a double page. Its a close up of the image at the top of this page and much clearer. What interested me was the small image standing in front of Ahmose, perhaps a son? I don't have any info on a son, have you?
The father of Ahmose was a man named Baba, who was a son of Reinet. Baba was a soldier of Seqenenre Tao II. This man may have been present and seen what it was that killed poor Seqenenre - his mummy is a memorable sight.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Paheri's tomb there's mention of a paternal uncle named Meky.
So Meky must have been the son of Ahmose and brother of Kemi (the mother of Paheri)

These are my notes on the family:


Ahmose, Son of Ebana, wife: Iput

Son: Meky
Daughter: Kem Kem’s husband: Atefrura, tutor to Prince Wadjmose.

Children of Kem
Sons: Paheri , Herary
Daughters: Amensat


Children of Paheri Nomarch of Nekheb
and Henut-er-neheh: (sem-priest)
Daughter Tadytes, Sons Amenmose and Rahotep
Paheri was tutor to Prince Wadjmose (son of Tuthmosis I) and Amenmose

This comes from the Osiris.net site.

The text by Sethe I downloaded a while ago mentions all the servants of Ahmose, and gives a list of court officials from the tomb of Paheri (from the court of Tuthmosis I)
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Thanks for the info on his children - thats really interesting
Quote:
In Paheri's tomb there's mention of a paternal uncle named Meky.

Do you mean paternal or maternal here?
Not sure if I've got it right in my head, but a paternal uncle would be the brother of his father (Atefrura). A maternal uncle a brother of his mother (Kem).
Wink I think I've confused the issue, but I just wanted to check.

I found it intriguing that the wife of Paheri, Henut-er-neheh was a sem priest. Cool Ancient girl power.

nooooo not Spice Girl songs in my head Mad
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
Very Happy Thanks for the info on his children - thats really interesting
Quote:
In Paheri's tomb there's mention of a paternal uncle named Meky.

Do you mean paternal or maternal here?

You're right, I goofed when I wrote that. Meky is described as "the brother of his mother" so that would be a maternal uncle.

I find it interesting that Peheri is the one who becomes monarch and finishes Ahmose of Ebana's tomb. I wonder if Meky died before his father Ahmose? Otherwise I would have expected him to be the one in power and overlooking the burial of his father.

Sesen wrote:
I found it intriguing that the wife of Paheri, Henut-er-neheh was a sem priest.

I didn't even pick up on that Smile I wonder what the other women in the family did?
They lived in the same time period as Queens Ahhotep and Ahmose-Nefertari. With Queen Ahhotep acting as regent and apparently even being involved with putting down a revolt and being buried with what seems like some military honors, it makes me wonder if such role models would influence the women of the time. Since the men in the family were royal tutors, the women must have also known the royal family.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henut-er-neheh kindof stuck out because I was thinking of Paheri being a tutor to Wadjmose and Amenmose, brothers of Hatshepsut. If there was an air of woman having positions usually taken by men, this would have been the environment that Hatshepsut grew up in.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hatshepsut actually did pass through my mind when I wrote that Very Happy

She did apparently grow up when women around here were very involved in every aspect of life.
I wonder too if it was a by-product of the war time they were experiences. There was quite a bit of fighting under Ahmose and even Amenhotep-I I think. so the men may have been away on military campaigns.

Still have spice girl songs playing in your head? Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Still have spice girl songs playing in your head?


Careful, Sesen. Anneke is very dangerous this way! She put dancing elephants in my head for the longest time.

If she ever tries something like this, just write the line:

"I'm too sexy for my..." Twisted Evil
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